The Femmes That Love You...

[Quintease]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Yeah, finding that line between fetishizing and preference is tricky, I think. I used to think dating someone just because they're trans was kind of insulting and fetishizing. Today I feel differently, and just prefer to be with queer people who are attracted to transguys (just as someone can be typically attracted to bears, twinks, butches, femmes, genderqueer folks, women in general, men in general etc.) It really is how the individual sees.

The first transguy I dated liked me partly as I wasn't attracted to transguys. In his eyes that made my attraction for him more 'genuine'. My current partner, my husband, partly liked me as I was attracted to a broad range of identities, therefore he felt safe that it was 'him' I was attracted to and not the novelty of his gender. I found both of these attitudes quite normal and understandable at the time.

Now I'm not so sure. What if we split and I discover in the future that I'm no longer interested in having a relationship with a cis-gendered woman? That I'm still not attracted to cis-gendered men and that what I really want is another transguy? What is the next transguy going to think when he discovers that I've purposely sought him out, not just because he's hot, but because he's trans? These are things I can't help but wonder. Will he think I'm a fetishising cowbag?

Susie Bright provided part of my answer by interviewing a long since transitioned transman (no idea of his name) who assured her readers that he was not offended by the idea of fetishisation. In fact he'd found it made lesbians more likely to consider him a potential partner. I know if I met a boy who demanded I be attracted to cis-gendered men also, or accused me of demeaning the entire trans community by only wanting to date a transman, then I probably wouldn't want to date him anyway.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Quintease

The first transguy I dated liked me partly as I wasn't attracted to transguys. In his eyes that made my attraction for him more 'genuine'. My current partner, my husband, partly liked me as I was attracted to a broad range of identities, therefore he felt safe that it was 'him' I was attracted to and not the novelty of his gender. I found both of these attitudes quite normal and understandable at the time.

Now I'm not so sure. What if we split and I discover in the future that I'm no longer interested in having a relationship with a cis-gendered woman? That I'm still not attracted to cis-gendered men and that what I really want is another transguy? What is the next transguy going to think when he discovers that I've purposely sought him out, not just because he's hot, but because he's trans? These are things I can't help but wonder. Will he think I'm a fetishising cowbag?

Susie Bright provided part of my answer by interviewing a long since transitioned transman (no idea of his name) who assured her readers that he was not offended by the idea of fetishisation. In fact he'd found it made lesbians more likely to consider him a potential partner. I know if I met a boy who demanded I be attracted to cis-gendered men also, or accused me of demeaning the entire trans community by only wanting to date a transman, then I probably wouldn't want to date him anyway.

Yeah, it depends on the individual. I'm definitely one of those guys who would prefer that a woman I'm with be attracted to transguys (hopefully in conjunction with another sex other than normative cismen..like, queer in some way or other). I won't date straight-identified women, personally. I prefer to date women who are somehow within the lgbt and/or queer spectrum. But at the same time it really depends not so much on someone identifies on the lgbtq spectrum, but how they see you.

Is part of the fetishisation the incorrect idea that transguys are "both a man and a woman" or or a man with whatever assumption about genitalia, or "or an x that used to be a y," or "the body and/or identity of this with the emotional capabilities of that" and so on? If so that's problematic to me...but not to other guys who might identify with that. So yeah, totally individual.

I think its trying to strike that balance between curiosity or interest and making sure to see someone as they see themselves and respecting who they are. So maybe the line isn't always between preference and fetishisation, but between the kind of fetishisation where other people place an identity on top of an individual instead of having a fetish for the identity the person actually has.

I think it depends on the politics of the transguy, too, and the way they see being trans. Some guys just want to be "a normal cis guy," see trans as a "period in their lives" or a "birth defect" and so identifying as straight and being with women who aren't into transguys or who are just into guys generally might make sense for them.

Other transguys prefer to be transguys and not seen as the same sex as cisguys (some hate being mistaken for cismen as much as they hate being mistaken for female and prefer to occupy a more transmale ground or an area that might be "confusing" to many people), with transmale as a different sex entirely than cismale or cisfemale. Just the way many lesbians are only into women or "straight"-identified women only into cismen, I think its logical that some people might largely be into trans people as sexes of their own or also into trans people in addition to other sexes/genders/identities or whatever.

Originally Posted by Nomad

i get this. i really do. i dont want to be thought of as straight.

Right there with you...but I hate how people always assume that if they interpret the people you fuck or have a relationship with as X then you must be Y. Which is why queer is so awesome. No little sex/gender criteria to meet to qualify for a sexuality lol Another transguy I know calls me straight sometimes just to piss me off...and it really fucking works, too. If you want to insult me, call me straight

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Yeah, it depends on the individual. I'm definitely one of those guys who would prefer that a woman I'm with be attracted to transguys (hopefully in conjunction with another sex other than normative cismen..like, queer in some way or other). I won't date straight-identified women, personally. I prefer to date women who are somehow within the lgbt and/or queer spectrum. But at the same time it really depends not so much on someone identifies on the lgbtq spectrum, but how they see you.

Is part of the fetishisation the incorrect idea that transguys are "both a man and a woman" or or a man with whatever assumption about genitalia, or "or an x that used to be a y," or "the body and/or identity of this with the emotional capabilities of that" and so on? If so that's problematic to me...but not to other guys who might identify with that. So yeah, totally individual.

I think its trying to strike that balance between curiosity or interest and making sure to see someone as they see themselves and respecting who they are. So maybe the line isn't always between preference and fetishisation, but between the kind of fetishisation where other people place an identity on top of an individual instead of having a fetish for the identity the person actually has.

I think it depends on the politics of the transguy, too, and the way they see being trans. Some guys just want to be "a normal cis guy," see trans as a "period in their lives" or a "birth defect" and so identifying as straight and being with women who aren't into transguys or who are just into guys generally might make sense for them.

Other transguys prefer to be transguys and not seen as the same sex as cisguys (some hate being mistaken for cismen as much as they hate being mistaken for female and prefer to occupy a more transmale ground or an area that might be "confusing" to many people), with transmale as a different sex entirely than cismale or cisfemale. Just the way many lesbians are only into women or "straight"-identified women only into cismen, I think its logical that some people might largely be into trans people as sexes of their own or also into trans people in addition to other sexes/genders/identities or whatever.

a-freakin-men!


Right there with you...but I hate how people always assume that if they interpret the people you fuck or have a relationship with as X then you must be Y. Which is why queer is so awesome. No little sex/gender criteria to meet to qualify for a sexuality lol Another transguy I know calls me straight sometimes just to piss me off...and it really fucking works, too. If you want to insult me, call me straight

'qualify for a sexuality' i get this image of filling out forms, providing references , going for a series of interviews and then waiting to hear the decision: 'ms. nomad, the committee has decided that you qualify as................................................ ...... QUEER!!'

[iamkeri1]

Quintease, I love your posts!
This is the journey I have been on since my husbands death, and like you, I gave it a lot of thought throughout our relationship, fully aware that it would be a dilema I would face if he died before I did. (The two of us breaking up was never a considertion.) Since his death I dated one ftm off and on for a couple of years and one stone butch LDR for a few months. My FTM partner felt the problem in our relationship was that he was not "queer" enough for me. I did not and do not agree, our problems lay elsewhere. He actually was the one who got me back face to face in the queer community where my previous queer world was strictly online. I am grateful to him for that, though we are no longer together. I am currently unattached and comfortable with that for the short term. I'm still trying to figure out who I am and where my attraction lies.

My SIL gave me this particular piece of wisdom and it steadies me in my search for myself and my future love. "Sweetie, don't stress about this. One day you will meet someone. You will know they are the right person for you and it won't matter to you whether they are male, female or somewhere in between. They will simply be the right person for you."

PS Q, you are not a cowbag of any variety. as my FTM partner used to say. "you're putting too much thought into it", LOL!

[QUOTE=Quintease;620306]
Now I'm not so sure. What if we split and I discover in the future that I'm no longer interested in having a relationship with a cis-gendered woman? That I'm still not attracted to cis-gendered men and that what I really want is another transguy? What is the next transguy going to think when he discovers that I've purposely sought him out, not just because he's hot, but because he's trans? These are things I can't help but wonder. Will he think I'm a fetishising cowbag?
QUOTE]

[Beloved]

Nomad,

Whoa! My intensional was not to piss you off and I'm sorry about that. I was just trying to ask some questions to understand where you were coming from. I was trying I explain how I felt about the whole thing. I'm on lunch break at work and I am posting from my phone. I don't like posting from my phone so this will be short. For now I just want to apologize for making you so angry. More to come at a later time.

Edit: I've never had the experience of a partner not validating that I'm queer. So I guess I didn't really understand what you were talking about. And until you gave more of an example I couldn't really imagine it. I think that is the basis of my misunderstanding here.

Maybe I should stick to the fun and fluff threads. *sigh*. I don't think I do as well in serious discussions online as I do in person. Real time communication works so much better for me.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by Beloved

Nomad,

Whoa! My intensional was not to piss you off and I'm sorry about that. I was just trying to ask some questions to understand where you were coming from. I was trying I explain how I felt about the whole thing. I'm on lunch break at work and I am posting from my phone. I don't like posting from my phone so this will be short. For now I just want to apologize for making you so angry. More to come at a later time.

Edit: I've never had the experience of a partner not validating that I'm queer. So I guess I didn't really understand what you were talking about. And until you gave more of an example I couldn't really imagine it. I think that is the basis of my misunderstanding here.

Maybe I should stick to the fun and fluff threads. *sigh*. I don't think I do as well in serious discussions online as I do in person. Real time communication works so much better for me.

i was apologizing to you. in my apology i acknowledged that i was unexpectedly triggered into feelings i thought were old news (pls note my flash back comment). i dont blame you for that and my apology is a sincere one. i didnt delete my original response because i felt there were valid points in it that were part of the original discussion but if you'll re-read the second half of my post you'll see that i apologized and i also said that i thought your question was a valid one and that i should have been clearer to begin with.

i feel like this is real time communication. it's real and it takes time. just like face to face conversation. there's no reason i can see that you should suggest that you dont do well in serious discussions on line. discussions are often uncomfortable and people make mistakes in them. i made a mistake. i apologized. i was sincere. that's all i can do.

[Quintease]

This is hilarious! http://www.darcomic.org/2008/11/11/titles/

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by Quintease

This is hilarious! http://www.darcomic.org/2008/11/11/titles/

this is hilarious! i'm definitely sharing!

[Tony]

Hi all. Just stopping in to say hello. I'm the new guy & this forum caught my attention immediately. I'm glad I found this site.