"Stud" versus "Butch"

The_Lady_Snow · 11-09-2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txdoc

Another Perspective...

You're kidding me right?

What perspective is this?

Chancie · 11-09-2012, 06:42 PM

Because the narrator is so young,

I'm thinking about how I'd respond to one of my students.

With that lens, I want to have patience for her ignorance, but

Her 'Shut the fuck up' stance really bothers me.

It makes it impossible for me to try to disentangle her misconceptions.

txdoc · 11-09-2012, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

You're kidding me right?

What perspective is this?

Inanity my dear...

The_Lady_Snow · 11-09-2012, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txdoc

Inanity my dear...

So what was the point in posting a you tube that had zero to do with the convo?

please don't call me "dear" we're not homies

thank you

txdoc · 11-09-2012, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

So what was the point in posting a you tube that had zero to do with the convo?

please don't call me "dear" we're not homies

thank you

First of all, I did not mean to be disrespectful. That is not who I am. Secondly, your response felt like a slap. Just saying that it felt like being bullied. My perspective. And if that is what this site is about, then I would prefer to step away. There is enough of my life where I'm the one standing alone to protect others when they don't have a voice. Let's say that her opinion had been my opinion or understanding. Isn't there a better way to address it? Sometimes things are interjected into a conversation to begin a dialogue. I do not know you, but neither do you know me.

The_Lady_Snow · 11-09-2012, 10:17 PM

Oh for fucks sake I'm a bully because I'm not empathetic to what some white kid defined Stud as?

Oh please!

Maybe you should read what the thread is about or supposed to be about.

Unbelievable!

txdoc · 11-09-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Oh for fucks sake I'm a bully because I'm not empathetic to what some white kid defined Stud as?

Oh please!

Maybe you should read what the thread is about or supposed to be about.

Unbelievable!

I have read the post from the beginning, dissenting opinions and all. And I did not call you a bully. I actually said that I felt I was being bullied by posting something that did not take the turn you projected for the conversation. Why would anyone want to propose a differing opinion from yours when all they would get would be wtf and are you kidding? If you want to dialogue about it, let's dialogue.

For the record, who said anyone was empathetic with the "white kid."

The_Lady_Snow · 11-09-2012, 10:35 PM

You said you felt like you were bullied, semantics.

The person in the video starts out with

Don't tell me that I'm wrong BEFORE she goes into her descriptors of lesbian, butch, Stud, Femme identities.

Femme-- girls who look entirely straight and girly

Dykes- a whole other level of lesbian

Butch-- buzzed hair no make up over sized clothing

Stud-- All pictures of white kids in between butch or femme, girls with short hair sag from the belt in between a boy or girl. Always short hair wear make up or eye liner

Hence the justifiable WTF, btw I'm not the only one going WTF why you not referring to them as bullyish? Hmm?

Corkey · 11-09-2012, 10:38 PM

Why post something that folks would find offensive in the first place?
It is cultural, the ID Stud, I don't think that a privileged white youngster is an authority on POC culture.

dixie · 11-09-2012, 11:13 PM

I belong to different lesbian groups on facebook. A couple that I frequent more often primarily use the labels "fem/femme", "stud", "stem", and occasionally "butch". I had absolutely no clue what they were talking about half the time. So....I continually read and ask questions, to see what they are defining with these terms. (Especially stem. ??) In these groups, the participants are primarily younger and also predominantly POC. From what I gather of their interpretations, stud does seem to be more interchangeable with butch, although seemingly for the more younger generation. Usually the 20somethings will use the term stud while 30s+ tend to more often use butch. They themselves (discussing these groups only), do not seem to define stud as primarily a cultural term (which is how I had previously thought/heard described). Femmes were thought of as being the more feminine lesbian, while I myself was described by them as being a "stem". Apparently, this is because I am a more aggressive/tomboi-ish femme.

I know that the college femme was a lil whack with all the "shut the fuck up" and that she was way off base in some of her descriptions, but do I think perhaps somewhere in there she was accurately describing what some portion of the younger generation uses terminology-wise. I'm not saying that I agree with her video or that she is "correct" in any way, but I am saying that I do believe there are people out there who truly have the same thoughts/beliefs that she expressed, in reference to labels. I don't think they necessarily mean to take away from anyone else's labels/identities, but that perhaps it is youth and/or simply not knowing the history behind those labels. Especially with younger generations, they tend to follow/adopt those descriptors that they think associates with them, without really knowing where those terms came from.

Note: I am not presuming to speak for anyone, or assume that I know what people ARE thinking/meaning. I am simply stating what *my* observations were in those couple of small groups and with the video, in hopes of feedback to further my own knowledge/understanding.

Corkey · 11-09-2012, 11:16 PM

I would hope some educating goes on with these youngsters.

txdoc · 11-09-2012, 09:54 PM

By the by...for those of you who thought I was intersecting an opinion, I was not. Perhaps my tag should have included a disclaimer. But I thought the speaker so inane that her self-important soliloquy would need no further disaffirmation.

11-09-2012, 10:17 PM	#6
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,077 Times in 15,669 Posts Rep Power: 21474874	Oh brother Oh for fucks sake I'm a bully because I'm not empathetic to what some white kid defined Stud as? Oh please! Maybe you should read what the thread is about or supposed to be about. Unbelievable! __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

11-09-2012, 10:35 PM	#8
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,077 Times in 15,669 Posts Rep Power: 21474874	Where do I start? You said you felt like you were bullied, semantics. The person in the video starts out with Don't tell me that I'm wrong BEFORE she goes into her descriptors of lesbian, butch, Stud, Femme identities. Femme-- girls who look entirely straight and girly Dykes- a whole other level of lesbian Butch-- buzzed hair no make up over sized clothing Stud-- All pictures of white kids in between butch or femme, girls with short hair sag from the belt in between a boy or girl. Always short hair wear make up or eye liner Hence the justifiable WTF, btw I'm not the only one going WTF why you not referring to them as bullyish? Hmm? __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

11-09-2012, 10:38 PM	#9
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	Why post something that folks would find offensive in the first place? It is cultural, the ID Stud, I don't think that a privileged white youngster is an authority on POC culture. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

11-09-2012, 11:13 PM	#10
dixie Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: I usually just poke it with a stick. Preferred Pronoun?: Bitch Relationship Status: Intertwined deeply Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: We're all a little mad here. Posts: 6,627 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 10,972 Thanked 21,383 Times in 4,808 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	I belong to different lesbian groups on facebook. A couple that I frequent more often primarily use the labels "fem/femme", "stud", "stem", and occasionally "butch". I had absolutely no clue what they were talking about half the time. So....I continually read and ask questions, to see what they are defining with these terms. (Especially stem. ??) In these groups, the participants are primarily younger and also predominantly POC. From what I gather of their interpretations, stud does seem to be more interchangeable with butch, although seemingly for the more younger generation. Usually the 20somethings will use the term stud while 30s+ tend to more often use butch. They themselves (discussing these groups only), do not seem to define stud as primarily a cultural term (which is how I had previously thought/heard described). Femmes were thought of as being the more feminine lesbian, while I myself was described by them as being a "stem". Apparently, this is because I am a more aggressive/tomboi-ish femme. I know that the college femme was a lil whack with all the "shut the fuck up" and that she was way off base in some of her descriptions, but do I think perhaps somewhere in there she was accurately describing what some portion of the younger generation uses terminology-wise. I'm not saying that I agree with her video or that she is "correct" in any way, but I am saying that I do believe there are people out there who truly have the same thoughts/beliefs that she expressed, in reference to labels. I don't think they necessarily mean to take away from anyone else's labels/identities, but that perhaps it is youth and/or simply not knowing the history behind those labels. Especially with younger generations, they tend to follow/adopt those descriptors that they think associates with them, without really knowing where those terms came from. Note: I am not presuming to speak for anyone, or assume that I know what people ARE thinking/meaning. I am simply stating what my observations were in those couple of small groups and with the video, in hopes of feedback to further my own knowledge/understanding. Last edited by dixie; 11-09-2012 at 11:16 PM.

11-09-2012, 11:16 PM	#11
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	I would hope some educating goes on with these youngsters. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

11-09-2012, 06:42 PM	#2
Chancie Senior Member How Do You Identify?: queer femme-inist Relationship Status: I'm lucky. Join Date: May 2010 Location: Western Mass Posts: 3,774 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,518 Thanked 14,541 Times in 2,744 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	Because the narrator is so young, I'm thinking about how I'd respond to one of my students. With that lens, I want to have patience for her ignorance, but Her 'Shut the fuck up' stance really bothers me. It makes it impossible for me to try to disentangle her misconceptions.

11-09-2012, 09:54 PM	#12
txdoc Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, Her Relationship Status: Wrangled Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: TX Posts: 333 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 703 Thanked 684 Times in 189 Posts Rep Power: 0	By the by...for those of you who thought I was intersecting an opinion, I was not. Perhaps my tag should have included a disclaimer. But I thought the speaker so inane that her self-important soliloquy would need no further disaffirmation.