Butch visibility

[Soon]

Meet ‘Big Boo’: OITNB’s Lea DeLaria on Her Backstory, That Strap-On Scene, and Living Out Loud

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Soon

Meet ‘Big Boo’: OITNB’s Lea DeLaria on Her Backstory, That Strap-On Scene, and Living Out Loud

Thanks for posting this. I have enjoyed seeing her more fully realized as a butch lesbian this season.

[MasterfulButch]

I experienced an incident recently that made me realise just how accustomed I’ve become to getting unwanted attention (thankfully not physical) for my presentation, specifically heckling. This time though, I found myself thinking about it more because my femme was with me and I really hated that she was subjected to it. Despite being in a foreign city, the incident itself wasn’t too bad and I’ve had worse at the local supermarket but it was enough for me to realise that I’m now dealing with our potential vulnerability and not just mine. That changes things.

I wouldn’t wish this kind of negative attention on anyone and yet I find that by association, I’m exposing my most precious person. That just makes me really sad.

How do other people handle this?

[MysticOceansFL]

I've been called Syr a lot but I've never expierenced negative stuff at least not worth mentioning.

[MysticOceansFL]

Originally Posted by MysticOceansFL

I've been called Syr a lot but I've never expierenced negative stuff at least not worth mentioning.

Originally Posted by MasterfulButch
I experienced an incident recently that made me realise just how accustomed I’ve become to getting unwanted attention (thankfully not physical) for my presentation, specifically heckling. This time though, I found myself thinking about it more because my femme was with me and I really hated that she was subjected to it. Despite being in a foreign city, the incident itself wasn’t too bad and I’ve had worse at the local supermarket but it was enough for me to realise that I’m now dealing with our potential vulnerability and not just mine. That changes things.

I wouldn’t wish this kind of negative attention on anyone and yet I find that by association, I’m exposing my most precious person. That just makes me really sad.

How do other people handle this?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by MasterfulButch

I experienced an incident recently that made me realise just how accustomed I’ve become to getting unwanted attention (thankfully not physical) for my presentation, specifically heckling. This time though, I found myself thinking about it more because my femme was with me and I really hated that she was subjected to it. Despite being in a foreign city, the incident itself wasn’t too bad and I’ve had worse at the local supermarket but it was enough for me to realise that I’m now dealing with our potential vulnerability and not just mine. That changes things.

I wouldn’t wish this kind of negative attention on anyone and yet I find that by association, I’m exposing my most precious person. That just makes me really sad.

How do other people handle this?

I haven't had this happen while with a partner in a very long while. I mean looks and stuff, but not heckling.

Anytime I have read a story about a butch being heckled when with their femme, the femme is quick to burst out in anger and protection. I don't know if it is because it is a person with an "accepted" gender expression (which I would say most femmes have) or if it is just the shock of their reactivity to the instigator, but I have only hears positive results in these situations. Often it results in the instigator feeling embarrassed or shame.

You hear about femmes staring people down for looking at their butches in a disgusted way and things like that as well. Don't discount our femmes (not saying you are), they are some tough ladies! They have dealt with cat calls their whole lives, they know how to deal with this shit!

Is your femme expressing discomfort and anxiety due to the heckling? Unless this is her "first rodeo" with a butch, she is probably used to it.

Have you talked with her about it?

[MasterfulButch]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

I haven't had this happen while with a partner in a very long while. I mean looks and stuff, but not heckling.

Anytime I have read a story about a butch being heckled when with their femme, the femme is quick to burst out in anger and protection. I don't know if it is because it is a person with an "accepted" gender expression (which I would say most femmes have) or if it is just the shock of their reactivity to the instigator, but I have only hears positive results in these situations. Often it results in the instigator feeling embarrassed or shame.

You hear about femmes staring people down for looking at their butches in a disgusted way and things like that as well. Don't discount our femmes (not saying you are), they are some tough ladies! They have dealt with cat calls their whole lives, they know how to deal with this shit!

Is your femme expressing discomfort and anxiety due to the heckling? Unless this is her "first rodeo" with a butch, she is probably used to it.

Have you talked with her about it?

Thanks for the input.

My femme’s pretty savvy and certainly more street-smart than I am so it’s not her ability to deal with such situations that troubles me. I’m just bothered that she’d find herself in that position in the first place. It feels like I’m inadvertently taking away her choice as to outing herself and for situations like this where it has negative ramifications, that’s something I’m struggling to reconcile.

You make an interesting point about cat calls though. I tend not to think about them because they are outside my experience but perhaps this is not as wholly alien to her as I think (and should be to everyone).

[BullDog]

What I have experienced is that as a butch I can be subjected at any time to the type of situation that MasterfulButch described, whether I am with a femme or not. It tends to be very sporadic and random and I never quite expect it. I could be out shopping or at a restaurant and it just comes out of the blue, although most of the time I don't have any problems at all. How frequent it happens to other butches will vary of course.

My observation from what femmes and other feminine women experience is more regular, almost like a drip, drip, drip of a faucet. They may not face cat calls every single day (some women may), but there is the constant assumption that feminine women are there for men and wanting their attention and "compliments." It plays out in various ways, but it is quite consistent rather than sporadic. At least that is what it seems like from my own observations. I think that most butches don't have to experience this on a daily basis.

I find that most femmes are extremely protective of their butch partners and friends and will go Mama Bear on anyone in a heart beat.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by MasterfulButch

Thanks for the input.

It feels like I’m inadvertently taking away her choice as to outing herself and for situations like this where it has negative ramifications, that’s something I’m struggling to reconcile.

I'm not butch, so excuse me for butting in on the butch thread. I bolded the part that spoke to me....

The proudest moments in MY everyday life, are the moments when i am on my Kasey's arm (butch/gender male), and i am seen as her wife. I am not "seen" as queer or femme most other times. I won't go into how we deal with the attention, Dapper gave good feedback on that.

Your lady chooses to "out" herself when she steps out with you, enjoy that blessing.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by MasterfulButch

I’m just bothered that she’d find herself in that position in the first place. It feels like I’m inadvertently taking away her choice as to outing herself and for situations like this where it has negative ramifications, that’s something I’m struggling to reconcile.

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

The proudest moments in MY everyday life, are the moments when i am on my Kasey's arm (butch/gender male),

Your lady chooses to "out" herself when she steps out with you, enjoy that blessing.

It is true that for the femmes who choose masculine looking butches (who are therefore assumed to be lesbian), they are outing themselves. However, they know that and they are choosing to be with you. What Ms. Tinkerbelly said and what Anya said after her I have heard before from partners. These women feel proud when they are with us. For some femmes they appreciate the visibility that being with a masculine female bodied person affords them.

The bottom line is that your partner knows she is outing herself when she is with you and she knows that things could become uncomfortable at times. It kind of comes with the territory of dating a butch. We are lucky indeed.

Side note, it is kind of weird that you haven't brought this up to her. If you have, and she says it isn't a problem, believe her!

Good discussion. Thanks for bringing it to the thread.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by MasterfulButch

Thanks for the input.

My femme’s pretty savvy and certainly more street-smart than I am so it’s not her ability to deal with such situations that troubles me. I’m just bothered that she’d find herself in that position in the first place. It feels like I’m inadvertently taking away her choice as to outing herself and for situations like this where it has negative ramifications, that’s something I’m struggling to reconcile.

You make an interesting point about cat calls though. I tend not to think about them because they are outside my experience but perhaps this is not as wholly alien to her as I think (and should be to everyone).

I have two observations.

The first is that I have always loved being with my Butch lesbian partners because it is the only time that I am recognized for who and what I am: a lesbian.

As a femme, I have always been mistaken for straight and it has always gotten really old to have that assumption made about me.

My second observation is one that may sound strange. Perhaps it was borne of always feeling that I was not pretty or sexy enough as a woman, starting as a teenager but I secretly liked the subtle (not overt) looks or attention I always got from men. That is hard to admit here but it is true. I always ignored them but on the inside, it felt validating, in some way. Socialized to feel that way, I guess.

I never got that attention from lesbians when I was by myself, because they dismissed me without a thought, as a straight woman.

I felt a real pang inside myself as I began to get older and became one of the invisible older women. On one hand, it was a relief to no longer deal with attention that truly was not wanted but on the other; it was a formal declaration of my own aging process.

Now that I have accepted my older woman status, I notice that my (older) Butch and I get barely a glance out in public.

I don't worry about a potential problem in the same way I did when I was young and with young butches.