Butch visibility

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Ascot

I'm certainly not looking to have that be my sole or even a major identifier, but I still like there to be an awareness of it. Do you guys care if people know?

I don't even know what it would be like for people not to "know". I'm not sure what exactly they do know though. I look, talk, walk and act in ways that are identifiable to most people as masculine so when the world looks at me, especially just in passing, they see male. I don't actively choose it; it just is. Of course there is enough woman in there to make a longer look or an interaction a tad confusing. Some people do a double take of sorts. Many correct themselves and use female qualifiers. Do they know? I imagine they do. But I'm not sure exactly what they believe they know. It's seems to be more about how I look than who I love.

Being queer doesn't seem to upset people as much as my bopping about with all my female masculinity on display. In my experience, homosexuality is easier for many to deal with than not presenting as society believes one of your gender should present.

[Ascot]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Being queer doesn't seem to upset people as much as my bopping about with all my female masculinity on display. In my experience, homosexuality is easier for many to deal with than not presenting as society believes one of your gender should present.

I think you make an excellent point. I might be wrong about this, but I tend to think that masculinely presenting women still have it easier than femininely presenting men.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Ascot

I might be wrong about this, but I tend to think that masculinely presenting women still have it easier than femininely presenting men.

It is certainly true that in a patriarchy masculinity is revered hence well guarded, especially along the borders where slippage can occur. Toward that end, gender in general is heavily policed in order to ensure a presentation that fits within society's definition of male and female. There appears to be more flexibility within female to explore gender as long as the exploration remains confined to acceptable areas and the explorer looks feminine. Certainly in fashion we see this.

I am inclined to believe this has more to do with the hatred of the feminine and the adoration of the masculine than any purposeful willingness to overlook masculinity in a female package. The tendency to punish male homosexuality, hell the separation of homosexual behavior into male and female supports this theory. In certain areas of the world female homosexuality isn't even recognized so their is no law against it. This has nothing to do with a love or a reverence for things female. It is misogyny at its most complex and bizarre.

This would explain why femininity in a man is not tolerated to any degree whereas woman are not required to adhere to such a complicated set of rules. The illusion is that women have more freedom to express themselves within their gender than men. The reality is that masculinity is actively and relentlessly guarded and defended. So a female gender presentation is not as restricted simply because it is not so valued. As children, girls have more leeway to drift slightly from the adult version of their gender than boys. This may be understood by examining the expectations of men and women in a patriarchy. It is tolerated if a girl and then a woman is willful and headstrong (seen as masculine traits) because she will be brought to heel by a man. Hopefully she will then come to understand her place, metaphorically speaking, as barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. How can a man be expected to fulfill his duty as the master of his universe if he is allowed to indulge in behaviors traditionally seen as feminine? This model is of course not adhered to by all people, it is however the ideal on which a patriarchy is built and the fallout of centuries of this kind of belief system is deeply ingrained in our psyche. We are fed this with our pablum as infants and dutifully even cheerfully feed it to our own offspring. It is probably the thing I can think of that comes as close as I can imagine to the idea of original sin. We must unlearn this shit if we expect anything to change.

I'm not sure that the hatred for feminine masculinity is deeper and more vicious than the hatred for masculine femininity. It is certainly true that society is able to joke about feminine masculinity. We can witness this in the plethora of media depictions featuring the stereo type of the amusing queen with the heart of gold. The bull dyke hasn't found her way into the hearts of television or movie goers in quite the same way. I think society does not find masculine femininity very funny at all. Whatever that means...

But I don't think it's easy for anyone who cannot pass as clearly one gender or the other. Not that passing as a different gender is an easy road. It's just a different hard road is all.

[Soon]

Meet ‘Big Boo’: OITNB’s Lea DeLaria on Her Backstory, That Strap-On Scene, and Living Out Loud

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Soon

Meet ‘Big Boo’: OITNB’s Lea DeLaria on Her Backstory, That Strap-On Scene, and Living Out Loud

Thanks for posting this. I have enjoyed seeing her more fully realized as a butch lesbian this season.

[MasterfulButch]

I experienced an incident recently that made me realise just how accustomed I’ve become to getting unwanted attention (thankfully not physical) for my presentation, specifically heckling. This time though, I found myself thinking about it more because my femme was with me and I really hated that she was subjected to it. Despite being in a foreign city, the incident itself wasn’t too bad and I’ve had worse at the local supermarket but it was enough for me to realise that I’m now dealing with our potential vulnerability and not just mine. That changes things.

I wouldn’t wish this kind of negative attention on anyone and yet I find that by association, I’m exposing my most precious person. That just makes me really sad.

How do other people handle this?

[MysticOceansFL]

I've been called Syr a lot but I've never expierenced negative stuff at least not worth mentioning.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by MasterfulButch

I experienced an incident recently that made me realise just how accustomed I’ve become to getting unwanted attention (thankfully not physical) for my presentation, specifically heckling. This time though, I found myself thinking about it more because my femme was with me and I really hated that she was subjected to it. Despite being in a foreign city, the incident itself wasn’t too bad and I’ve had worse at the local supermarket but it was enough for me to realise that I’m now dealing with our potential vulnerability and not just mine. That changes things.

I wouldn’t wish this kind of negative attention on anyone and yet I find that by association, I’m exposing my most precious person. That just makes me really sad.

How do other people handle this?

I haven't had this happen while with a partner in a very long while. I mean looks and stuff, but not heckling.

Anytime I have read a story about a butch being heckled when with their femme, the femme is quick to burst out in anger and protection. I don't know if it is because it is a person with an "accepted" gender expression (which I would say most femmes have) or if it is just the shock of their reactivity to the instigator, but I have only hears positive results in these situations. Often it results in the instigator feeling embarrassed or shame.

You hear about femmes staring people down for looking at their butches in a disgusted way and things like that as well. Don't discount our femmes (not saying you are), they are some tough ladies! They have dealt with cat calls their whole lives, they know how to deal with this shit!

Is your femme expressing discomfort and anxiety due to the heckling? Unless this is her "first rodeo" with a butch, she is probably used to it.

Have you talked with her about it?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Being queer doesn't seem to upset people as much as my bopping about with all my female masculinity on display. In my experience, homosexuality is easier for many to deal with than not presenting as society believes one of your gender should present.

Spot on. It has been interesting to me that when this has come up in conversation with cisgender, heterosexual women (friends), they are always surprised to hear me say this. I have to go through it with them for a bit before they say, "oh, yeah....you're right" with a light bulb going on for them.