Breeder and other words we use to hurt our own.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Oneida

When I came out to my family, I was around 24 years old. One of my Uncles told me he was said because he really thought I would have been a wonderful mother.

I can't remember what happened yesterday, but some comments live forever in our memories, don't they.

Right?

My mother was/is upset, because she'll "never have grandchildren"

It was one of the first things out of her mouth

When I was about 10ish (I guess...I don't really remember), my mother also told me, "One day you'll meet a man like your [step] dad and have a bunch of kids"

Her nice catholic upbringing left her feeling like a failure, because she never had twelve kids. And naturally, I was supposed to follow in the footsteps of her 'dream' to have a shit ton of them.

And ironically, she was considered the town Hester Prynne because she'd had one out of wedlock...and considered herself such on top of being a failure for not producing 11 more kids. It was (still is) a completely fucked up (patriarchal) view. A woman isn't 'useful' unless she produces boatloads of offspring...but even if she DOES produce boatloads of offspring, if she doesn't do it FOR a man, she's still considered 'bad' (as evidenced by Firie's comments re: judges' comments that women are breeders...even if they're raped).


Dylan

[blush]

There is also a classist element to how many children are acceptable.

I've wondered if the show, "17 kids and counting" would be as popular if the parents weren't white, wealthy, and Christian.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by blush

There is also a classist element to how many children are acceptable.

I've wondered if the show, "17 kids and counting" would be as popular if the parents weren't white, wealthy, and Christian.

Interesting point.

The number of children that is considered desirable or even acceptable varies alot from culture to culture as well.

Friends of mine in Switzerland told me that they were celebrated for their first child, got modest congratulations on their second, and then dirty looks and snide comments in public from strangers after their third. They are white, middle class, professionals...yet Swiss culture evidently frowns on families of more than 2 children as being environmentally and personally irresponsible.

Guess it all depends on where you're coming from...

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by blush

There is also a classist element to how many children are acceptable.

I've wondered if the show, "17 kids and counting" would be as popular if the parents weren't white, wealthy, and Christian.

Isn't that show only popular in terms of rubbernecking? I don't know one person (in real life) who doesn't make fun of the Duggars. Hell, ---I--- make fun of the Duggars. I think of them as irresponsible and self-congratulatory.

[Mr. Moon]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Right?

My mother was/is upset, because she'll "never have grandchildren"

It was one of the first things out of her mouth

When I was about 10ish (I guess...I don't really remember), my mother also told me, "One day you'll meet a man like your [step] dad and have a bunch of kids"

Her nice catholic upbringing left her feeling like a failure, because she never had twelve kids. And naturally, I was supposed to follow in the footsteps of her 'dream' to have a shit ton of them.

And ironically, she was considered the town Hester Prynne because she'd had one out of wedlock...and considered herself such on top of being a failure for not producing 11 more kids. It was (still is) a completely fucked up (patriarchal) view. A woman isn't 'useful' unless she produces boatloads of offspring...but even if she DOES produce boatloads of offspring, if she doesn't do it FOR a man, she's still considered 'bad' (as evidenced by Firie's comments re: judges' comments that women are breeders...even if they're raped).


Dylan

I'm sorry that you were raised in that way, Dylan. It's obviously affected your view on so many things.

My Mom said to me the day after my hysterectomy..."Well now I really know you won't have children". I was pretty stunned, considering she knew I was gay for at least 10 years at that point. No to mention *I* knew I did not and had never wanted children. However, she did not force her view upon me. I get the feeling, Dylan, that you believe thinking about your Daughters AND Sons having a family is a derogotory thing. That is somehow translates to the negative. I have to say, not always. I think it's quite natural for a parent to want the best for thier children. And if they think the white picket fence world is the best thing in the whole world, then that's what they wish for them! It doesn't have to be about patriarcle (blah blah blah however you spell that I'm sure the police will fix it) bullshit. My Father, for the record, stated "I just want her to be happy", when he finally came to terms with me being gay.

My 2 cents on that part.

As far as nasty words.....Oneida's list says it best. We ALL use derogitory terms at some point in our lives. And they certainly aren't meant to make friends! And yep, it shows our misgivings.

-Mr. Moon

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Moon

I'm sorry that you were raised in that way, Dylan. It's obviously affected your view on so many things.

My Mom said to me the day after my hysterectomy..."Well now I really know you won't have children". I was pretty stunned, considering she knew I was gay for at least 10 years at that point. No to mention *I* knew I did not and had never wanted children. However, she did not force her view upon me. I get the feeling, Dylan, that you believe thinking about your Daughters AND Sons having a family is a derogotory thing. That is somehow translates to the negative. I have to say, not always. I think it's quite natural for a parent to want the best for thier children. And if they think the white picket fence world is the best thing in the whole world, then that's what they wish for them! It doesn't have to be about patriarcle (blah blah blah however you spell that I'm sure the police will fix it) bullshit. My Father, for the record, stated "I just want her to be happy", when he finally came to terms with me being gay.

My 2 cents on that part.



-Mr. Moon

Moon, I like ya' a lot, and I'm saying this with a lot of respect.

It bothers me that you've made assumptions about the way I was raised and that you've assumed you 'know where my views come from' based on a few sentences I've posted about my mother's Catholic-induced views.

Also, I have no idea how anything I've said in this thread or the other translates into wanting a family is bad. Seriously, if I have posted something in particular that would lead you to think that's what I'm saying, I truly apologize.

Of course (most) people want the best for their kids.

I sincerely have no idea how anything I've said has implied what I've highlighted above


Dylan

[Mr. Moon]

From what I read, that was my take home message.

I'm not gonna play the quote thing. Takes too much time for something that seems silly.

I meant no disrespect. The quote I quoted from you seemed clear to me.

I honestly thought you laid it out there. That's what I got from it.

Again, no disrespect meant, Dylan.
-Mr. Moon

[SuperFemme]

While the discussion on whether or not Mother is Universally sacred is one that is worth having...can we get back to what the OP was about here?

Which is words that we use to hurt each other within the Queer Community and why.

At a recent local event I was asked why I married a "he-she". Who even says that within the contexts of Queer World anymore?
I was stunned into silence to be honest. Which I regret. Because that turned into me being so mad I could only cry and I hate being in that spot.

[Martina]

This phrase has been used a lot against women of color, particularly immigrant women and Latinas. i think it's worth thinking about that.

This is hallmark of postcolonial feminism, this disagreement with western feminists who think of having children as oppressive and dangerous and just ruinous to oneself and society. There are tons of articles about this. Or there were back in the day.

i think characterizing women who have children under circumstances different than we would choose as victims is offensive in the extreme, and it is often women of minority cultures within the U.S. or women of the developing world who get characterized this way.

My instructional assistant, a Latina, is pregnant. This is her third child. She can afford this child. She owns a house. Yadda yadda. When she was talking about what she thought the perfect sized family was -- four children -- my co-teacher, a single white man, rolled his eyes. i am so glad she didn't see.

My uncle, a rich white gay man from LA, and his partner talk alot about how immigrants and their (in their minds, too many) children have overwhelmed and destroyed the public institutions -- hospitals, schools, etc. -- of southern California. Part of their discourse is this totally insincere concern for the poor women who have to carry the burden of taking care of all those children. i like my uncle a lot, but this stuff is racist.

The use of the word we are discussing is often racist, at least here in California.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

While the discussion on whether or not Mother is Universally sacred is one that is worth having...can we get back to what the OP was about here?

Which is words that we use to hurt each other within the Queer Community and why.

At a recent local event I was asked why I married a "he-she". Who even says that within the contexts of Queer World anymore?
I was stunned into silence to be honest. Which I regret. Because that turned into me being so mad I could only cry and I hate being in that spot.

Sorry. Saw this after i posted. i could delete, i guess. But i am all invested in the post now.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Martina

Sorry. Saw this after i posted. i could delete, i guess. But i am all invested in the post now.

LOL. No, by all means, don't delete. Now I'm invested as a Latina. I give.

[Toughy]

I would agree that the sacred mother as practiced by the God of Abraham monotheists is very harmful to girls and women. You must remember the sacred mother is a bastardization of the Goddess. The patriarchy's religion, in order to destroy the matriarchy's religion, stole my Sacred Mother and turned Her into a tool of the patriarchy.......mary, mother of jesus....

Human beings of any culture have every right and should vehemently stop the practice of mutilating girl's genitalia. Actually we have an OBLIGATION to stop this.

We also have an OBLIGATION to stop the sexual exploitation of children.....especially girls. The media in Western culture bears the greatest responsibility and obligation to do this.
----------------------

as to breeder........

I have always used it to denote those with children....that includes straight folk and queer folk. Sometimes it certainly has a 'dig' kind of quality to it. Sometimes it's just shorthand for those whose lives do revolve around children.

There is a huge difference between those of us whose lives do not revolve around children and those of us whose lives revolve around children.

-------------------

I do hear what is being said about slinging that word in a hateful way towards someone else. It is entirely inappropriate.

I don't think it's a good thing to sling any word at any human being with hate/meanness/derision behind that word.

I do have say as one who believes in 'question authority', this idea that I need to go read a thread about unacceptable words, so I know how to 'properly speak my mind' smacks of all kinds of censorship.

The numbers of words in any language that can be said with harm are unimaginable. We must be careful how we censor language. Censoring language can be a very slippery slope when it comes to offensive.

Hell my shrink thought is was offensive for me to call myself crazy...........laughin........she asked me not to do that because it offended her............laughin....you can just imagine how that conversation ended.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

While the discussion on whether or not Mother is Universally sacred is one that is worth having...can we get back to what the OP was about here?

Which is words that we use to hurt each other within the Queer Community and why.

At a recent local event I was asked why I married a "he-she". Who even says that within the contexts of Queer World anymore?
I was stunned into silence to be honest. Which I regret. Because that turned into me being so mad I could only cry and I hate being in that spot.

I guess the kind of person in the Queer World, who would use "he-she" to refer to your spouse, is the same kind of person in the Non-Queer world, who would also use that phrase—someone who is insensitive, ignorant and/or fearful.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Liam

I guess the kind of person in the Queer World, who would use "he-she" to refer to your spouse, is the same kind of person in the Non-Queer world, who would also use that phrase—someone who is insensitive, ignorant and/or fearful.

Good point. I suppose I am the kind of girl that hold us to a higher standard? I am just completely floored when somebody who has had to navigate the world as a Queer uses slurs against other Queers (or anyone for that matter). I know that is not a realistic world view, but I can't help it. It stings a bit more when it comes from another Queer.