Obama's Public Support of Michael Vick

BullDog · 12-30-2010, 12:48 PM

Why don't people put their passion and energy into all the women and children that white men abuse? Why not focus on the white male power system that makes people of color, women, children, animals and the environment instruments of their control? That's where the locus of the mis-use and abuse of power is.

If ALL people (not just white men) were treated with respect, dignity and as equals maybe collectively we would treat our animals better too. How can you expect animals to be treated well in such a fucked up world with such fucked up value systems? Get to the root of the problems. People abuse animals because they think they have the right to.

julieisafemme · 12-30-2010, 12:54 PM

[QUOTE=BullDog;256233]Why don't people their passion and energy into all the women and children that white men abuse? Why not focus on the white male power system that makes people of color, women, children, animals and the environment instruments of their control? That's where the locus of the mis-use and abuse of power is.

If ALL people (not just white men) were treated with respect, dignity and as equals maybe collectively we would treat our animals better too. How can you expect animals to be treated well in such a fucked up world with such fucked up value systems? Get to the root of the problems. People abuse animals because they think they have the right to.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly what I have been saying BullDog. The root of the problem is the othering which allows us to view animals and other human beings as less than and therefore not worthy of decent treatment. I think others have been saying this too. So that is where my passion and energy is going.

Fighting for the rights of animals is not overlooking or not fighting for the rights of women and children. And the reverse is true as well. Anytime someone fights for the rights of queers, POC, women, animals, children and so on they are helping to fight for all of us. At least that is how I see it.

BullDog · 12-30-2010, 01:00 PM

When people get all upset over Michael Vick and have multiple threads about it, but there is no discussion of women being abused by multiple football players over and over and over, I think women are being ignored. It's been all over the news. Some of the biggest football stars have done it.

suebee · 12-30-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

When people get all upset over Michael Vick and have multiple threads about it, but there is no discussion of women being abused by multiple football players over and over and over, I think women are being ignored. It's been all over the news. Some of the biggest football stars have done it.

Bully, I don't think anybody has said that women's issues are NOT important. Personally I think we as a species are capable of caring about more than one thing at a time. I honestly don't understand why you persist in saying that the Michael Vick story isn't important on a thread ABOUT Michael Vick!

julieisafemme · 12-30-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

When people get all upset over Michael Vick and have multiple threads about it, but there is no discussion of women being abused by multiple football players over and over and over, I think women are being ignored. It's been all over the news. Some of the biggest football stars have done it.

I am here to tell you I am NOT ignoring the abuse of women. Not now. Not ever. As a survivor of abuse it filters into and affects EVERYTHING I touch in this world. Ignoring the abuse of women is ignoring me and I do not do that anymore.

This thread is about animal abuse and what Obama said to a football coach. I am thinking about that and trying to link it to the bigger picture as I see it. That includes the abuse of human beings as I have mentioned in all of my posts.

I am tired of being lumped into some group who does not care about, advocate for or passionately fight the abuse of women.

BullDog · 12-30-2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

I am here to tell you I am NOT ignoring the abuse of women. Not now. Not ever. As a survivor of abuse it fliters into and affects EVERYTHING I touch in this world. Igonoring the abuse of women is ignoring me and I do not do that anymore.

This thread is about aninal abuse and what Obama said to a football coach. I am thinking about that and trying to link it to the bigger picture as I see it. That includes the abuse of human beings as I have mentioned in all of my posts.

I am tired of being lumped into some group who does not care about, advocate for or passionately fight the abuse of women.

I have no idea why you think I am lumping you in with anything.

julieisafemme · 12-30-2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

I have no idea why you think I am lumping you in with anything.

Then who are you talking to? You do not quote posts of specific people. You paint these broad brush strokes and we are supposed to figure out if we fit or not??? I will NOT sit by and let any woman be abused. I will NOT sit by and let another woman or girl go through what I went through and still do this day! Now I am riled up and so I will take a break from this thread. I do appreciate your voice in defense of women. I wish you would use it to support us here instead of what feels like to me tearing us down.

BullDog · 12-30-2010, 01:12 PM

So we're not supposed to bring up things like racism and sexism? This thread was placed in the politics section and the OP said they weren't going to vote for Obama because of his remarks. Some of us are looking at this from a much broader picture than others.

suebee · 12-30-2010, 01:00 PM

[quote=julieisafemme;256238]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Why don't people their passion and energy into all the women and children that white men abuse? Why not focus on the white male power system that makes people of color, women, children, animals and the environment instruments of their control? That's where the locus of the mis-use and abuse of power is.

If ALL people (not just white men) were treated with respect, dignity and as equals maybe collectively we would treat our animals better too. How can you expect animals to be treated well in such a fucked up world with such fucked up value systems? Get to the root of the problems. People abuse animals because they think they have the right to.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly what I have been saying BullDog. The root of the problem is the othering which allows us to view animals and other human beings as less than and therefore not worthy of decent treatment. I think others have been saying this too. So that is where my passion and energy is going.

Fighting for the rights of animals is not overlooking or not fighting for the rights of women and children. And the reverse is true as well. Anytime someone fights for the rights of queers, POC, women, animals, children and so on they are helping to fight for all of us. At least that is how I see it.

Each issue is a piece of the puzzle. If you leave out any one, the picture will be incomplete. None of us can take care of ALL of the issues, but if we focus on the ones that speak the loudest to us and respect the efforts of others who speak on the other issues, we might actually get somewhere as a society.

blush · 12-30-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Why don't people put their passion and energy into all the women and children that white men abuse? Why not focus on the white male power system that makes people of color, women, children, animals and the environment instruments of their control? That's where the locus of the mis-use and abuse of power is.

If ALL people (not just white men) were treated with respect, dignity and as equals maybe collectively we would treat our animals better too. How can you expect animals to be treated well in such a fucked up world with such fucked up value systems? Get to the root of the problems. People abuse animals because they think they have the right to.

I don't disagree with you, but to be fair, this thread is mostly about the repercussions of Michael Vick's phone call from Obama. It isn't shocking to me that posters are focusing more on that aspect. Awareness and discussions about any type of abuse doesn't detract from or "waste space" about other types of abuse. It's not like we have an empathy threshold.

I'd love to see a thread about the intersection of football and domestic violence.

BullDog · 12-31-2010, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blush

I don't disagree with you, but to be fair, this thread is mostly about the repercussions of Michael Vick's phone call from Obama. It isn't shocking to me that posters are focusing more on that aspect. Awareness and discussions about any type of abuse doesn't detract from or "waste space" about other types of abuse. It's not like we have an empathy threshold.

I'd love to see a thread about the intersection of football and domestic violence.

I'm very well aware that people can care about the abuse of animals and the abuse of women. I am one of them. Like I have already said people have brought up Vick time and time again- here and in the media. When do they ever talk about the systemic violence against women perpetuated by football players?

The Ben Roethlisberger incident just happened this year, yet most don't even seem to be familiar with it. He's one of the most famous figures in all of sports. He's also a white quarterback. Michael Vick is a black quarterback. They both play for sports teams in the State of Pennsylvania. Why is one getting so much air time and the other one doesn't? Because of Obama's phone call? Really I don't think so.

I don't know why I am supposed to take this to another thread. The over obsession of Vick has lots of racist tones to it which are being discussed here- quite appropriately. There's other big aspects to this story as well. Why are people so obsessed with one player who has been convicted and served his time?

katsarecool · 12-31-2010, 12:51 AM

I am from Georgia and the press gave this story lots of coverage. After charges were dropped by the victim the story died. So he was not tried and convicted big difference.

I'mOneToo · 12-31-2010, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katsarecool

I am from Georgia and the press gave this story lots of coverage. After charges were dropped by the victim the story died. So he was not tried and convicted big difference.

Ben's case has been widely reported (although from a biased standpoint) in the locality where his first alleged offense occurred. It is NOT a closed case.

7/21/2009 A woman waits a year to accuse him of rape *a year after the fact* and files a lawsuit against him: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/907219995

7/22/2009 The Douglas county sheriff counters saying they cannot investigate a lawsuit: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/907229996

7/23/2009 Big Ben says he did not commit rape (but, he also does not state that the encounter never occurred): http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/907239998

8/1/2009 Ben turns the tables and accuses the supposed victim of wrongdoing: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/907319993

8/15/2009 Ben's attorneys want a change of venue to a more favorable county: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/908149980

8/18/2009 motion to dismiss a suit (doesn't state WHAT suit and there's no statement by the victim in the article, but her "best friend" and co-worker states it's baseless): http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/908189997

8/20/2009 Ben's lawyers say they have proof the accuser is lying: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/908199996 - comment calls her "McNutty"

8/21/2009 Both sides claim extortion: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/908219977

9/8/2009 Accuser's attorney says they'll drop it if he admits to rape: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/909089985

9/9/2009 Ben's lawyer refuses that offer: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/909099995

9/10/2009 Victim's lawyer wants list of everyone Ben has bedded, and Ben's attorney calls his accuser "mentally unstable": http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/909109995

9/14/2009 Ben's lawyer moves to have victim's statement struck: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/909149992

9/16/2009 (third judge since the lawsuit began) Refuses favorable change of venue for Ben: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/909169988

9/18/2009 Now Ben's lawyers say victim filed suit because she was trying not to get laid off: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/909189998

9/30/2009 Judge denies motion to dismiss: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/909309995

10/4/2009 more mud slinging, and a new lawsuit: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/910059996

11/8/2009 Ben's first accuser quits her job: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/911089994

3/5/2010 FRESH ASSAULT ACCUSATIONS against Ben, new locale:http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100309877

3/8/2010 Ben's lawyers say it never happened (again): http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100309833

3/9/2010 Second accuser's attorney asks for privacy: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100309787

3/10/2010 Off-duty officers say second alleged assault never happened: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100319993

3/23/2010 DNA request withdrawn in Georgia case: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100329939

4/9/2010 DA to decide whether or not to charge Ben in Georgia: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100409760

4/9/2010 NBC hasn't said if he's invited back to the ACC golf tournament next summer (golf tournament/scene of the crime): http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100409763

4/12/2010 No charges against Ben in Georgia (one can only guess as to how that was decided): http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100419962

4/15/2010 Goodell: Decision on Roethlisberger in near future (in NFL): http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100419908

4/16/2010 Police ties to Ben (in Georgia) still questioned: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100419813

4/19/2010 Goodell: Roethlisberger violated NFL policy (with bad judgments): http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100419753

4/21/2010 Trooper can't keep working for Ben: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...EWS/100429951\

4/21/2010 Ben suspended for six games for bad behavior: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100429953

4/23/2010 Goodell can INCREASE suspension if more bad behavior: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100429885

4/26/2010 Ben will not appeal suspension: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100429795

4/29/2010 Ben's police buddies under more scrutiny: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100429649

6/3/2010 Ben makes the best of his second chance (and makes no apologies): http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100609880

9/3/2010 Ben's suspension REDUCED to four games (did not commit any alleged rapes for 4 months): http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/100909922

12/27/2010 More mud on the first accuser's face, from Caesar's: http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/art...NEWS/101229819

It is still an ongoing situation. The first suit has not been settled in any way. Ben's reduction of his suspension for "good behavior" (not being alleged of any rapes for four months) seems preposterous. His remorseless comments on the 3rd of June just six months ago speak for themselves. He's claimed that he's reformed and convinced the NFL commissioner, even if his legal case is not resolved, and even if he did not get a call from Obama welcoming him back to the NFL.

Apologies if any omissions or incomplete links, ain't the best cut 'n paster on earth.

blush · 12-31-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

I'm very well aware that people can care about the abuse of animals and the abuse of women. I am one of them. Like I have already said people have brought up Vick time and time again- here and in the media. When do they ever talk about the systemic violence against women perpetuated by football players?

The Ben Roethlisberger incident just happened this year, yet most don't even seem to be familiar with it. He's one of the most famous figures in all of sports. He's also a white quarterback. Michael Vick is a black quarterback. They both play for sports teams in the State of Pennsylvania. Why is one getting so much air time and the other one doesn't? Because of Obama's phone call? Really I don't think so.

I don't know why I am supposed to take this to another thread. The over obsession of Vick has lots of racist tones to it which are being discussed here- quite appropriately. There's other big aspects to this story as well. Why are people so obsessed with one player who has been convicted and served his time?

Well, my lack of knowledge about both Ben and Michael Vick has more to do with my dislike of football than anything else.

BullDog · 12-31-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blush

Well, my lack of knowledge about both Ben and Michael Vick has more to do with my dislike of football than anything else.

My point wasn't about taking anyone to task for not knowing. The Vick case has been much more widely publicized outside of sports circles.

12-30-2010, 12:48 PM	#1
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,640 Times in 4,463 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Why don't people put their passion and energy into all the women and children that white men abuse? Why not focus on the white male power system that makes people of color, women, children, animals and the environment instruments of their control? That's where the locus of the mis-use and abuse of power is. If ALL people (not just white men) were treated with respect, dignity and as equals maybe collectively we would treat our animals better too. How can you expect animals to be treated well in such a fucked up world with such fucked up value systems? Get to the root of the problems. People abuse animals because they think they have the right to. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

12-30-2010, 01:00 PM	#3
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,640 Times in 4,463 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	When people get all upset over Michael Vick and have multiple threads about it, but there is no discussion of women being abused by multiple football players over and over and over, I think women are being ignored. It's been all over the news. Some of the biggest football stars have done it. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

12-30-2010, 01:12 PM	#8
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,640 Times in 4,463 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	So we're not supposed to bring up things like racism and sexism? This thread was placed in the politics section and the OP said they weren't going to vote for Obama because of his remarks. Some of us are looking at this from a much broader picture than others. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

12-31-2010, 12:51 AM	#12
katsarecool Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, Her, Woman Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Between Athens and Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,236 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,849 Thanked 1,765 Times in 734 Posts Rep Power: 323367	I am from Georgia and the press gave this story lots of coverage. After charges were dropped by the victim the story died. So he was not tried and convicted big difference. __________________

12-30-2010, 12:54 PM	#2
julieisafemme Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Woman Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Married to Greyson Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In the present Posts: 828 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,156 Thanked 3,434 Times in 660 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	[QUOTE=BullDog;256233]Why don't people their passion and energy into all the women and children that white men abuse? Why not focus on the white male power system that makes people of color, women, children, animals and the environment instruments of their control? That's where the locus of the mis-use and abuse of power is. If ALL people (not just white men) were treated with respect, dignity and as equals maybe collectively we would treat our animals better too. How can you expect animals to be treated well in such a fucked up world with such fucked up value systems? Get to the root of the problems. People abuse animals because they think they have the right to.[/QUOTE] That's exactly what I have been saying BullDog. The root of the problem is the othering which allows us to view animals and other human beings as less than and therefore not worthy of decent treatment. I think others have been saying this too. So that is where my passion and energy is going. Fighting for the rights of animals is not overlooking or not fighting for the rights of women and children. And the reverse is true as well. Anytime someone fights for the rights of queers, POC, women, animals, children and so on they are helping to fight for all of us. At least that is how I see it.