only another butch would understand

[BullDog]

Hey Metro, great to see you!

[Jett]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Hey Metro, great to see you!

Likewise *thumbs up*

[Beau]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

Although you stated your query was directed to the "male identified" of which I'm not... just a thought. Someone may try to emasculate a butch (either male or female ID etc. etc. etc.) but I don't believe they actually can do this without said butch allowing it.

In other words, no one can emasculate me... though they may try and it isn't pleasant I'd guess... but IMO it only reflects back on their own short comings.


Anyway good thread Dean Thoreau... though I'm not much of a burper.

Thanks for this, Metropolis. As a non-burping, female-identified butch, I have no concerns regarding my masculinity. I'd be thrilled to be acknowledged in the world for the different type of woman I am. And, no, no woman/partner/date has ever attacked me for that. Either I'm lucky, or I just have too much natural T to make that an issue. Regardless, I'm mostly disappointed that the first "butch" thread is already centered on male stereotypes as a marker of what butch is. That's just fucking sad.

Originally Posted by BullDog

Well I don't burp much, am not male identified, and don't have a huge concern about anyone trying to emasculate me, but howdy to all the butches in the Butch Zone.

Hello back, Bully. Thank you for your post as well.

Beau, who doesn't scratch in public either

[Mister Bent]

As someone both male identified, and (trans) butch identified, I think there is a broad expanse of what can be covered by "only another butch would understand." While burping might be a knuckle-dragging male stereotype, it's a practice greatly enjoyed (or not, for those of delicate sensibilities) by all sexes and genders.

Meanwhile, I think Ol' Jet was on point with the emasculation thing, I've had this one hurled at me before, and I just viewed it as the feeble last resort of a desperate person. Eh.

Which is to say, why don't we move on respectfully, instead of disdainfully.

[Toughy]

what Metro, Bully and Beau said.........

certainly I have been asked to 'tone it down a little'......laughin.......like I can.....however I didn't find it emasculating...not sure how you could emasculate me.....laughin.....

[PapaC]

I used to do this years ago when I was more into forum participation but this is a new site, so I'd like to suggest something if I may:

maybe there should be a discussion on the definitions of words like:

"emasculate" and "effeminate" as they appear to go hand in hand, and perhaps discuss the antiquity of definitions of these words.

Because I'm looking at the definitions of both online, and I'm not at all impressed with those:

ie:
emasculate

–verb (used with object) 1. to castrate. 2. to deprive of strength or vigor; weaken.
–adjective 3. deprived of or lacking strength or vigor; effeminate.

Origin:
1600–10; < L ēmasculātus (ptp. of ēmasculāre), equiv. to ē- e- + māscul(us) male + -ātus -ate 1

Related forms:
e⋅mas⋅cu⋅la⋅tion, noun
e⋅mas⋅cu⋅la⋅tive, adjective
e⋅mas⋅cu⋅la⋅tor, noun
e⋅mas⋅cu⋅la⋅to⋅ry  /ɪˈmæskyələˌtɔri, -ˌtoʊri/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [i-mas-kyuh-luh-tawr-ee, -tohr-ee] Show IPA , adjective


ef⋅fem⋅i⋅nate

–adjective 1. (of a man or boy) having traits, tastes, habits, etc., traditionally considered feminine, as softness or delicacy. 2. characterized by excessive softness, delicacy, self-indulgence, etc.: effeminate luxury.
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object) 3. to make or become effeminate.

Origin:
1350–1400; ME < L effēminātus, equiv. to ef- ef- + fēmin(a) woman + -ātus -ate 1

Related forms:
ef⋅fem⋅i⋅nate⋅ly, adverb
ef⋅fem⋅i⋅nate⋅ness, noun
ef⋅fem⋅i⋅na⋅tion, noun

----------------------

It might be beneficial to start a thread to discuss these terms and how it affects *ALL* of us, and/or how that affects different genders on the spectrum.

As for burping... The best burper in *my* world? is that of my sister in law (who presents as femme or has in the past) who can burp out the ENTIRE alphabet. As far as I'm concerned she wins in that gas department.

*waving to all butch buddies*

oh.. and this is a special hello to Metropolis... you didn't know this, but when I post status quips on Facebook, all replies are forwarded to my cell phone, and there I was in the grocery store trying to decide on what kind of chips I wanted last night, while you flirted outrageously with Beau... *on my friggen facebook*... interrupting my grocery shopping.

sheesh... where's the love and why does Beau always get it? I wanna you both for not including me in brokeback mountain moment. Just sayin' if you're gonna flirt while I'm shopping? It better be with me.

[Bit]

*reads Chris's post*

*starts laughing*

'scuse me, Diva, can I borrow this?

*pulls Derailer Crown from Diva's head, plops it onto Chris's*

k y'all, carry on!

[Diva]

Originally Posted by Bit

*reads Chris's post*

*starts laughing*

'scuse me, Diva, can I borrow this?

*pulls Derailer Crown from Diva's head, plops it onto Chris's*

k y'all, carry on!

Wait.


You took my Tiara?????

Right.

[Jett]

Originally Posted by PapaC

I used to do this years ago when I was more into forum participation but this is a new site, so I'd like to suggest something if I may:

maybe there should be a discussion on the definitions of words like:

"emasculate" and "effeminate" as they appear to go hand in hand, and perhaps discuss the antiquity of definitions of these words.

Because I'm looking at the definitions of both online, and I'm not at all impressed with those:

ie:
emasculate

–verb (used with object) 1. to castrate. 2. to deprive of strength or vigor; weaken.
–adjective 3. deprived of or lacking strength or vigor; effeminate.

Origin:
1600–10; < L ēmasculātus (ptp. of ēmasculāre), equiv. to ē- e- + māscul(us) male + -ātus -ate 1

Related forms:
e⋅mas⋅cu⋅la⋅tion, noun
e⋅mas⋅cu⋅la⋅tive, adjective
e⋅mas⋅cu⋅la⋅tor, noun
e⋅mas⋅cu⋅la⋅to⋅ry  /ɪˈmæskyələˌtɔri, -ˌtoʊri/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [i-mas-kyuh-luh-tawr-ee, -tohr-ee] Show IPA , adjective


ef⋅fem⋅i⋅nate

–adjective 1. (of a man or boy) having traits, tastes, habits, etc., traditionally considered feminine, as softness or delicacy. 2. characterized by excessive softness, delicacy, self-indulgence, etc.: effeminate luxury.
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object) 3. to make or become effeminate.

Origin:
1350–1400; ME < L effēminātus, equiv. to ef- ef- + fēmin(a) woman + -ātus -ate 1

Related forms:
ef⋅fem⋅i⋅nate⋅ly, adverb
ef⋅fem⋅i⋅nate⋅ness, noun
ef⋅fem⋅i⋅na⋅tion, noun

----------------------

It might be beneficial to start a thread to discuss these terms and how it affects *ALL* of us, and/or how that affects different genders on the spectrum.

As for burping... The best burper in *my* world? is that of my sister in law (who presents as femme or has in the past) who can burp out the ENTIRE alphabet. As far as I'm concerned she wins in that gas department.

*waving to all butch buddies*

oh.. and this is a special hello to Metropolis... you didn't know this, but when I post status quips on Facebook, all replies are forwarded to my cell phone, and there I was in the grocery store trying to decide on what kind of chips I wanted last night, while you flirted outrageously with Beau... *on my friggen facebook*... interrupting my grocery shopping.

sheesh... where's the love and why does Beau always get it? I wanna you both for not including me in brokeback mountain moment. Just sayin' if you're gonna flirt while I'm shopping? It better be with me.

Oh you're such a wallflower... you should have spoke up...

[Random]

Heys beau...

So.. I have a question that has been burning on the tip of my fingers for YEARS.. but now feel that I can ask this question..

So.. what of the butch who is a living breathing sterotype of what a sterotype of a butch is? You speak for yourself as a non burping femail id butch who has no concerns regarding your masculinity.. Can't a male ID burping, concerned about being demascunlized butch speak up as well?

You get to talk for you.. He gets to talk for him...

I have someone who I call my brother.. He is the stero type of a hard working blue collar masculine ID butch.. When he and his girl get into a fight, she does the *call him by his birth name* to hurt and make him feel bad about himself.. that who he is in his head, is not who he is in body or on paper... it matter to him.. it hurts him... It might not hurt you for someone to call you by your birth name.. But for someone you love and trust to knowingly go for your soft spot.. It's not a lovely thing..

The lovely thing about the world is.. People come in all kinds of flavor.. all different types... Not one way is the right way to be...

Male ID Butchs... they are not just some *stero type* They are living breathing people who have the same right as anyone else to complain, say what makes them smile, what makes them happy, and what makes them cry...

If you are sad about the first thread being started by butches being more of the masculine/male ID flavor.. then start one where it's not.... Don't make people feel bad about them selfs because they are different than you...


Huggs.. and much love to the Mrs...

Originally Posted by beau4afemme

Thanks for this, Metropolis. As a non-burping, female-identified butch, I have no concerns regarding my masculinity. I'd be thrilled to be acknowledged in the world for the different type of woman I am. And, no, no woman/partner/date has ever attacked me for that. Either I'm lucky, or I just have too much natural T to make that an issue. Regardless, I'm mostly disappointed that the first "butch" thread is already centered on male stereotypes as a marker of what butch is. That's just fucking sad.

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[Jet]

Originally Posted by Ms Cyn

I have someone who I call my brother.. He is the stero type of a hard working blue collar masculine ID butch.. When he and his girl get into a fight, she does the *call him by his birth name* to hurt and make him feel bad about himself.. that who he is in his head, is not who he is in body or on paper... it matter to him.. it hurts him... It might not hurt you for someone to call you by your birth name.. But for someone you love and trust to knowingly go for your soft spot.. It's not a lovely thing..

s...

I get this exactly and it does hurt your pride and heart. It's bad enough to feel like you're in the wrong body always saving face and never feeling like you can just be you without being scrutinized and then to have someone you love and whom you wouldn't hurt demoralize and and completely negate your love, your masculinity and your person as being nothing. I don't care how much anyone says they roll off the comments. It's not that easy, not for me because in that moment in time she shattered my trust in the relationship and in the quality of the person i thought her to be....then negated the person whom I thought she loved as "her man"

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Ms Cyn

.. she does the *call him by his birth name* to hurt and make him feel bad about himself.. that who he is in his head, is not who he is in body or on paper... it matter to him.. it hurts him...

I am so sorry to say that I have seen this again and again and again---and not just from Femmes, either--I have seen people of all gender identities in our community do this to each other. It's a very bad habit. There are really no words that adequately describe this kind of deliberately malicious pain-infliction, this silencing, this intention to wipe a person's true being off the face of the earth simply because one doesn't like what they said or did.

You would think that any of us who are concerned about being invisible would be grown-up enough to control ourselves even in anger, grown-up enough to restrain ourselves from this kind of utter disrespect. Invalidating another person's identity, making them invisible simply because we are angry, says nothing about them--but a whole world about us.

I just don't understand why people don't get that.

[Beau]

Originally Posted by Ms Cyn

Heys beau...

So.. what of the butch who is a living breathing sterotype of what a sterotype of a butch is? You speak for yourself as a non burping femail id butch who has no concerns regarding your masculinity.. Can't a male ID burping, concerned about being demascunlized butch speak up as well?

No delineation was made as to butch IDs. Everyone can speak up everywhere. I did not say otherwise.

You get to talk for you.. He gets to talk for him...

Obviously. I spoke only for myself.

I have someone who I call my brother.. He is the stero type of a hard working blue collar masculine ID butch.. When he and his girl get into a fight, she does the *call him by his birth name* to hurt and make him feel bad about himself.. that who he is in his head, is not who he is in body or on paper... it matter to him.. it hurts him... It might not hurt you for someone to call you by your birth name.. But for someone you love and trust to knowingly go for your soft spot.. It's not a lovely thing..

I imagine that would hurt very much, yes. I'm sorry for anyone's personal pain.

The lovely thing about the world is.. People come in all kinds of flavor.. all different types... Not one way is the right way to be...

No, there is not one way to be, which is why a stereotype employed to describe all is a problem. Hence, that is my dislike for a characterization of all butches that doesn't fit me.

Male ID Butchs... they are not just some *stero type* They are living breathing people who have the same right as anyone else to complain, say what makes them smile, what makes them happy, and what makes them cry...

If you read my words, you'll see I didn't characterize any IDs as a stereotype, only the behavior specified.

If you are sad about the first thread being started by butches being more of the masculine/male ID flavor.. then start one where it's not.... Don't make people feel bad about them selfs because they are different than you...

Again, you misread my words. I was sad that stereotypical male markers were employed in an attempt to define what butch is for all, which is impossible and unfair. I still believe that to be true. I wasn't trying to make anyone feel badly about themselves, nor do I believe that's even within my power to do.

I have no desire to begin any thread that would seek to divide butches into categories, which actually speaks to my original point.

Huggs.. and much love to the Mrs...

respectfully,
Beau