A straight girl enters the queer world...

[Parker]

Should have used the mulit-quote feature, so I edited the multiple posts into one. Sorry about that.

Originally Posted by Julie

WOW Parker. I don't know you. But, this is just ugly. Why is someone a shit stirrer if they are expressing their feelings? Is it simply you do not agree with him? And if so, can't you just say that, without being ugly?

And why use the term "Good Girl?" Sounds a bit misogynistic to me? Why not just say - I am not going to sit down and be silent? Do only Good Girls keep their mouths shut - cause this Good Girl doesn't.

Julie

In this patriarchal world, yes, "good girls" are expected to keep their mouths shut - which is why I used the phrase, Julie; because it FELT misogynistic to be shamed and called out like that for words and behavior that simply werent there. I was hearing "sit down and shut up like a good little girl while the rest of us talk about this because your opinion doesnt matter."

And I am not going to apologize for calling out what I see as shit-stirring when I see it simply because you are now trying to shame me by calling me ugly. Using a sweeping generalization of "butches are demonizing transguys" was in my opinion, doing nothing but stirring shit because that wasnt what was happening.

I am not telling anyone here how to behave, I would sincerely appreciate the same in return.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Julie

What is not okay, is getting ugly and calling people names. Not okay and that needs to be called out. We all have various opinions on every subject. And personally, I think this is a beautiful thing.

I know Bully real time, as I know Weatherboi and a bunch of the other posters here. Just because we disagree with one another, does not mean we are attacking and does not mean we cannot all come together after our disagreements and share a meal.

Julie

Actually, Julie, I never called anyone any names; you however have called me ugly more than once for calling out what I saw as shit-stirring.

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Wow you get all this from me asking about blanket statements that butches were making about transguys in this thread?? What does the duplicity thread have anything to do with this?? I had an opinion over there and it makes me a shit stirrer and i have an opinion over here and it makes me a shit stirrer??? How so??? I never told anybody to sit down and be quiet or not have an opinion. Just because i voice a counter opinion to a member doesnt make me a shit stirrer. What bait are you talking about? i get you feel this is a correct assumption of your community. I get that you think transguys do less work here. I just don't agree with it. I voiced that. Period

You had more than "an opinion."

You accused butches of trying to "demonize transguys" and then tried to shame us with those accusations and some sweeping generalizations of your own.

The end.


ps - I didnt call you a shit stirrer, I said you were stirring shit. It might be splitting hairs, but I wanted to call out behavior or words you said, not call you names.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by aishah

i understand that threads get heated and off-topic, which is generally the point at which i choose step back publicly. however, i had sent a message to bulldog privately thanking her for her posts, and i didn't feel right about not voicing my support of what she said publicly when her words have clearly been misinterpreted.

Aishah, I hope you will feel comfortable at some point in your time here, to voice your opinions publicly and not step back when things get heated and even go off-topic. Some of the best learning moments have come about, when we go off topic. It's good you sent Bulldog a private message appreciating her opinions. And you should voice your opinions... Things will always get heated here on the planet, just like they do at home sitting around the kitchen table.

Originally Posted by Corkey

Agreed Julie. We're not all going to have those kumbiya moments, but I'll tell ya' what..I got Bully's back and weatherboi's and Ebons and Parkers, and, and.
Family often don't see eye to eye, thing is we don't have to. That doesn't mean we don't get to have differing opinions, it means we are diverse, and that in my book is always a good thing.

That's right Corkey - You and I have had many differences of opinions. But still, we are always always there for one another. I love this about our community.

Some people can handle it and some cannot.

Bully - not sure why your post did not quote. Oftentimes, our words come across much different online than if we were sitting together. We miss the facial expressions and body language. You and I have not always agreed and you and I have often agreed. It's good to keep the dialogue running. Life would get so dreadful if we all just YESSED (is that a word?) one another.

Julie

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Parker

Should have used the mulit-quote feature, so I edited the multiple posts into one. Sorry about that.




In this patriarchal world, yes, "good girls" are expected to keep their mouths shut - which is why I used the phrase, Julie; because it FELT misogynistic to be shamed and called out like that for words and behavior that simply werent there. I was hearing "sit down and shut up like a good little girl while the rest of us talk about this because your opinion doesnt matter."

And I am not going to apologize for calling out what I see as shit-stirring when I see it simply because you are now trying to shame me by calling me ugly. Using a sweeping generalization of "butches are demonizing transguys" was in my opinion, doing nothing but stirring shit because that wasnt what was happening.

I am not telling anyone here how to behave, I would sincerely appreciate the same in return.

Thanks.




Actually, Julie, I never called anyone any names; you however have called me ugly more than once for calling out what I saw as shit-stirring.




You had more than "an opinion."

You accused butches of trying to "demonize transguys" and then tried to shame us with those accusations and some sweeping generalizations of your own.

The end.


ps - I didnt call you a shit stirrer, I said you were stirring shit. It might be splitting hairs, but I wanted to call out behavior or words you said, not call you names.

Parker -- I never called you UGLY. Believe me, you would know if I did. I said your posting was UGLY and it was.

I would not expect an apology from you... Anymore than I would think you would expect one from me. I feel your writings are condescending, ugly and rude. Just my opinion.


Julie

[Parker]

Originally Posted by Julie

Parker -- I never called you UGLY. Believe me, you would know if I did. I said your posting was UGLY and it was.

I would not expect an apology from you... Anymore than I would think you would expect one from me. I feel your writings are condescending, ugly and rude. Just my opinion.


Julie

And my opinion is that your posts towards me are the same. So at least we agree on that. lol



ps - it's really hard to argue with you because my sister's name is Julie and it feels like I am arguing with my sister.

[DaddysKitten]

Originally Posted by Words

Just a thought...

Do these two know that their relationship is being discussed on a public forum? Does one know? Do both know? Did anyone think to ask them - both of them - if it would be okay?


Words

This is completely anonymous, and I am sure it mimics many other relationships as well. As I stated earlier on, I had all intentions of starting this thread and directing her to it. I have since changed my mind, only because I do not want her to see the animosity shared between people I went to for a bit of support. But I will take the advice and information shared back to her, and hope it helps her, even if in a little way.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Words

Just a thought...

Do these two know that their relationship is being discussed on a public forum? Does one know? Do both know? Did anyone think to ask them - both of them - if it would be okay?


Words

I don't think it matters. We don't know their names. We don't know where they live. They are not members here. We have no way of identifying them. No privacy has been invaded.

It could be about ANY two individuals facing this issue and dealing with it.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by DaddysKitten

This is completely anonymous, and I am sure it mimics many other relationships as well. As I stated earlier on, I had all intentions of starting this thread and directing her to it. I have since changed my mind, only because I do not want her to see the animosity shared between people I went to for a bit of support. But I will take the advice and information shared back to her, and hope it helps her, even if in a little way.

Please do not take the responses in this thread as animosity. We are a messy bunch who speak our minds. None of it is directed/personal towards you or your Daddy.

There is history (good and bad) between some of these folks and it tends to rear it's head in places you would never expect. Most of us have known each other at least 10 yrs and we forget how we could look to new folks.

The written word is a flat media without body language and facial expressions to help understand tone and intent. That plays a big part in how words are 'heard'.

[DaddysKitten]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Please do not take the responses in this thread as animosity. We are a messy bunch who speak our minds. None of it is directed/personal towards you or your Daddy.

There is history (good and bad) between some of these folks and it tends to rear it's head in places you would never expect. Most of us have known each other at least 10 yrs and we forget how we could look to new folks.

The written word is a flat media without body language and facial expressions to help understand tone and intent. That plays a big part in how words are 'heard'.

No no no. I did not take it 'personal' at all. I was just hoping for a bit more positive reinforcement, and it has gone completely off task immediately. I am enjoying it, but knowing her, it would scare her. That is all.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by DaddysKitten

This is completely anonymous, and I am sure it mimics many other relationships as well. As I stated earlier on, I had all intentions of starting this thread and directing her to it. I have since changed my mind, only because I do not want her to see the animosity shared between people I went to for a bit of support. But I will take the advice and information shared back to her, and hope it helps her, even if in a little way.

Please don't take this wrong, but all of us talking and being blunt isn't animosity, it's folks who are passionate about their opinions. I'm still friends with Bully and Parker and Julie and weatherboi, and everyone else who has a different opinion than I do. No one can see beyond the screen, so sometimes our passionate responses are taken wrong, which is why I asked for clarification, and I got it. I'd still go to dinner with them and have a brew, or whatever.
Sometimes family yell, just 'cause we yell doesn't mean we don't like one another.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Please do not take the responses in this thread as animosity. We are a messy bunch who speak our minds. None of it is directed/personal towards you or your Daddy.

There is history (good and bad) between some of these folks and it tends to rear it's head in places you would never expect. Most of us have known each other at least 10 yrs and we forget how we could look to new folks.

The written word is a flat media without body language and facial expressions to help understand tone and intent. That plays a big part in how words are 'heard'.

Are you sure we aren't related?

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by DaddysKitten

No no no. I did not take it 'personal' at all. I was just hoping for a bit more positive reinforcement, and it has gone completely off task immediately. I am enjoying it, but knowing her, it would scare her. That is all.

laughin...............welcome to the Planet....I have never seen a thread not get side-tracked...........some sooner than others...........

[Parker]

You know, at this point, I feel like I am adding to the shit-stirring, not stopping it; because this back and forth isnt helping or solving anything. Since I need to lie down anyway, I'm just going to check out of the thread.

I am not trans, femme, or straight and all I tried to do was agree with someone and then got accused of all sorts of crazy shit so I ran with it. But while I am not sitting down and shutting up ( ) I'm just going to take a step back so you all can get beyond the side-track and continue with your discussion - cool?

Btw - Corkey and Toughy hit the nail on the head - we argue and fight but I, for one, was never mad - just ramming away like the Aries that I am .... and during all that Mercury in Retrograde stuff too.

Later

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I am a stone butch. I never felt anyone should have to put more effort into understanding me or my issues anymore than I would put effort into understanding them and their issues. I've also made it quite clear that no one should ever have to change because of me. It will only work if we are compatible and we both are true to ourselves.

I know Bully came in and clarified when folks got up in arms about her saying this, but I've got to say...am I the only one who read it as she typed it? Y'all, I wear coke bottle glasses and I saw this clear as day (not Day, who has been MIA).

Please see the underlined text.

To me, this one point (and only this one point....I'm not touching the other mess) is saying that ALL parties involved with one another should EQUALLY attempt to learn about the other and the other's affiliations/presentation/id/family/etc. That one side should not put more effort or energy into this than the other; that it should be BALANCED.

How does that turn into 'disinterest'?

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Parker

You know, at this point, I feel like I am adding to the shit-stirring, not stopping it; because this back and forth isnt helping or solving anything. Since I need to lie down anyway, I'm just going to check out of the thread.

I am not trans, femme, or straight and all I tried to do was agree with someone and then got accused of all sorts of crazy shit so I ran with it. But while I am not sitting down and shutting up ( ) I'm just going to take a step back so you all can get beyond the side-track and continue with your discussion - cool?

Btw - Corkey and Toughy hit the nail on the head - we argue and fight but I, for one, was never mad - just ramming away like the Aries that I am .... and during all that Mercury in Retrograde stuff too.

Later

You should know better LOL

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I know Bully came in and clarified when folks got up in arms about her saying this, but I've got to say...am I the only one who read it as she typed it? Y'all, I wear coke bottle glasses and I saw this clear as day (not Day, who has been MIA).

Please see the underlined text.

To me, this one point (and only this one point....I'm not touching the other mess) is saying that ALL parties involved with one another should EQUALLY attempt to learn about the other and the other's affiliations/presentation/id/family/etc. That one side should not put more effort or energy into this than the other; that it should be BALANCED.

How does that turn into 'disinterest'?

Thank you Gemme. I don't know how it could have been any clearer. That's why it felt like ill intent to call it disinterest.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by Corkey

You should know better LOL

lol, I know right?

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Thank you Gemme. I don't know how it could have been any clearer. That's why it felt like ill intent to call it disinterest.

I think folks read it with their emotions. Or maybe they need to borrow my glasses. For their sakes, I hope not.

As it's been said in the last few posts, emotions get high and we're all pretty vocal about our beliefs. It just doesn't help the matter when things get discombolutated and taken wrong. Luckily, it seems as if things will get back on track here pretty soon.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Parker

And my opinion is that your posts towards me are the same. So at least we agree on that. lol



ps - it's really hard to argue with you because my sister's name is Julie and it feels like I am arguing with my sister.

Even better Parker. Siblings argue all the time.
My sister's name is Dana and she is not speaking to me - because we argue LOL.

Julie

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Please don't take this wrong, but all of us talking and being blunt isn't animosity, it's folks who are passionate about their opinions. I'm still friends with Bully and Parker and Julie and weatherboi, and everyone else who has a different opinion than I do. No one can see beyond the screen, so sometimes our passionate responses are taken wrong, which is why I asked for clarification, and I got it. I'd still go to dinner with them and have a brew, or whatever.
Sometimes family yell, just 'cause we yell doesn't mean we don't like one another.

Not to get off topic - But I am not having Brew. It leaves an ugly taste in my mouth.

LOL

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Julie

Not to get off topic - But I am not having Brew. It leaves an ugly taste in my mouth.

LOL

Umbrella drink or up?