FTM place to vent and talk

[BrutalDaddy]

Interesting discussion going on in the sense that it's not something I ever really thought about.

Guess you could say the reasoning being that I didn't truly get how "okay" it would be for me to fully come out about being FTM until I met 'sational/Julie. Since then, well she's my wife so it's not even a question in my mind but this question/thought has got me thinking.

I don't think I could ever date a straight woman. Not being judgemental or saying it's anything they would do wrong but it's purely me. Having gone through the journey I've gone through and still going through, I don't know if I could ever have that understanding from a straight female that I would get from a female that lives within the realm of the rainbow

For me, it's hard enough trying to explain my situation to those around me (mainly family and some friends who ask). They are all straight. Yet I know without a shadow of a doubt that I can come in here, verbally vomit anything out (that has to do with me and transitioning) and 9 out of 10 females would GET IT. Whereas with straight women, not so much.

So I feel like I'd rather be with a woman who can somewhat get me, my frustrations, my joy (at being seen as a male out there), my embarrassments, my everything. That's what I have now with Julie. She gets it because she is gay. She understands that society will never completely so get it. I can come home one day and be upset because of how I was perceived and she gets that totally.

Maybe I'm being judgemental because like I said, I've never really dated a straight woman while in transition so I could be way off base. I just know that, if I were single, I honestly think I'd be way more comfortable dating someone from within the rainbow then outside of it. I just want to make sure that I'm understood. That I'm not looked at with pity or that whole, "boy I gots no idea why she'd do that but if it makes her happy, eh who cares". I have enough family members that do that. Lol.

Anyway, good topic. Thanks for the brain food.


Loves Me Some Brain,
Brute.

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by BrutalDyke

Interesting discussion going on in the sense that it's not something I ever really thought about.

Guess you could say the reasoning being that I didn't truly get how "okay" it would be for me to fully come out about being FTM until I met 'sational/Julie. Since then, well she's my wife so it's not even a question in my mind but this question/thought has got me thinking.

I don't think I could ever date a straight woman. Not being judgemental or saying it's anything they would do wrong but it's purely me. Having gone through the journey I've gone through and still going through, I don't know if I could ever have that understanding from a straight female that I would get from a female that lives within the realm of the rainbow

For me, it's hard enough trying to explain my situation to those around me (mainly family and some friends who ask). They are all straight. Yet I know without a shadow of a doubt that I can come in here, verbally vomit anything out (that has to do with me and transitioning) and 9 out of 10 females would GET IT. Whereas with straight women, not so much.

So I feel like I'd rather be with a woman who can somewhat get me, my frustrations, my joy (at being seen as a male out there), my embarrassments, my everything. That's what I have now with Julie. She gets it because she is gay. She understands that society will never completely so get it. I can come home one day and be upset because of how I was perceived and she gets that totally.

Maybe I'm being judgemental because like I said, I've never really dated a straight woman while in transition so I could be way off base. I just know that, if I were single, I honestly think I'd be way more comfortable dating someone from within the rainbow then outside of it. I just want to make sure that I'm understood. That I'm not looked at with pity or that whole, "boy I gots no idea why she'd do that but if it makes her happy, eh who cares". I have enough family members that do that. Lol.

Anyway, good topic. Thanks for the brain food.


Loves Me Some Brain,
Brute.

which is why I'm back on this site....cause it WILL be "easier" if the woman understands about us. I just find myself in a group of freinds that I love & enjoy & they happen to be straight so......when in Rome....LOL......anyway, it's just something I'm kicking around. Like I said..i am SO not ready yet......have a ways to go to heal yet. I wouldn't do that to ANY woman straight or lesbian.

[BrutalDaddy]

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

which is why I'm back on this site....cause it WILL be "easier" if the woman understands about us. I just find myself in a group of freinds that I love & enjoy & they happen to be straight so......when in Rome....LOL......anyway, it's just something I'm kicking around. Like I said..i am SO not ready yet......have a ways to go to heal yet. I wouldn't do that to ANY woman straight or lesbian.

I get what you're saying. All of our friends are straight as well. Comes with territory of area we live in but also the gay folks that do live near there really won't have anything to do with us because of the whole FTM/femme status. I guess they think we're "traitors" to our own kind? Lol. Whatever their deal is, we don't worry about it and actually love our straight friends. Only one of them (Julie's best friend) really gets it I think. The rest just kinda get that glazed over look in their eyes then pretend they never heard any of it. Go figure.

When you're ready, you'll know.


Brute.

[Hominid]

I've actually gotten the most flak from vanilla lesbians and butch lesbians - after some conversation, at least with one who was a true enough friend to have it, and with others over time, there was an element of threat/jealousy/something. One friend told me that she wishes she could transition - and I can see it. She's thrilled when someone sees her as male. I can remember, pre-transition, thinking ftms were weak - that it took more strength to be female and masculine, and that I was more masculine as a butch than 99% of the men I knew. Over time (with butches), I tried to recognize their masculinity, and make clear that my male-ness was NOT masculinity in and of itself. Now, they don't "see" me, so it's not an issue in that way. It IS an issue as far as meeting others in the community (another friend and I have compared my position with femme invisibility).

Originally Posted by BrutalDyke

I get what you're saying. All of our friends are straight as well. Comes with territory of area we live in but also the gay folks that do live near there really won't have anything to do with us because of the whole FTM/femme status. I guess they think we're "traitors" to our own kind? Lol. Whatever their deal is, we don't worry about it and actually love our straight friends. Only one of them (Julie's best friend) really gets it I think. The rest just kinda get that glazed over look in their eyes then pretend they never heard any of it. Go figure.

When you're ready, you'll know.


Brute.

[BrutalDaddy]

Originally Posted by Hominid

I've actually gotten the most flak from vanilla lesbians and butch lesbians - after some conversation, at least with one who was a true enough friend to have it, and with others over time, there was an element of threat/jealousy/something. One friend told me that she wishes she could transition - and I can see it. She's thrilled when someone sees her as male. I can remember, pre-transition, thinking ftms were weak - that it took more strength to be female and masculine, and that I was more masculine as a butch than 99% of the men I knew. Over time (with butches), I tried to recognize their masculinity, and make clear that my male-ness was NOT masculinity in and of itself. Now, they don't "see" me, so it's not an issue in that way. It IS an issue as far as meeting others in the community (another friend and I have compared my position with femme invisibility).

Exactly! Julie and I have actually talked about how she goes through femme invisibility and I go through FTM invisibility, both in straight and rainbow world. Maybe that's why I feel I would be way more comfortable with a femme if I were single, versus a straight woman. I've never met a straight woman who suffers from feeling invisible with her own idenity but I've met plenty of femmes who have. It's that tangible common ground/connection that makes the relationship/friendship/whatever it is that much more bonded. That understanding of what the other must go through.

You know I've tried really hard to understand what the issue folks from our own world have against us (her and I) but I can not figure it out. Finally got to a point where I don't care, for the most part. Won't lie, still gets to me sometimes because it really would be nice to be around "family" face to face but that'll happen come September at the Reunion! Not only get to put faces with the names of folks we've talked to for years but also get to soak up the real life experience of being "home", so to speak.

[weatherboi]

In my past I found some of my fears and apprehension and some apprehension my friends felt over my trans status may have caused some angst but for the most part I think all my butch friends and lesbian friends are very supportive and interested in my life here and in everyday. I have never felt like I am in competition with people over my gender and I don't think they have ever felt this way with me.

[BrutalDaddy]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

In my past I found some of my fears and apprehension and some apprehension my friends felt over my trans status may have caused some angst but for the most part I think all my butch friends and lesbian friends are very supportive and interested in my life here and in everyday. I have never felt like I am in competition with people over my gender and I don't think they have ever felt this way with me.

I'm glad you've got friends who are supportive. Wish I could say same for her and I. Unfortunately we've gotten shitted on quite a bit over the years but it's their issue, not ours.

I still remember our first date. Took her to a local gay club/bar and soon as we walked in the door, you could've heard a pin drop. Also if looks could wither, we'd crumpled to the floor. Lol.

Funny thing is, I've met some butches who were just fine with us until they found out that I was FTM. Then came the stares, the sneers, the eyerolling. Don't even think it's a competition thing at all with them because I'm very content with who I am and also very content with who they are and how they identify. It's literally an issue of being "traitors" because I want to be a man (even though it's not a "want" but something that just is) which is the easier, softer way for them. No matter the fact that it's the harder path for me to take since now I have to deal judgement from society AND the rainbow.

[DMW]

Originally Posted by BrutalDyke

I'm glad you've got friends who are supportive. Wish I could say same for her and I. Unfortunately we've gotten shitted on quite a bit over the years but it's their issue, not ours.

I still remember our first date. Took her to a local gay club/bar and soon as we walked in the door, you could've heard a pin drop. Also if looks could wither, we'd crumpled to the floor. Lol.

Funny thing is, I've met some butches who were just fine with us until they found out that I was FTM. Then came the stares, the sneers, the eyerolling. Don't even think it's a competition thing at all with them because I'm very content with who I am and also very content with who they are and how they identify. It's literally an issue of being "traitors" because I want to be a man (even though it's not a "want" but something that just is) which is the easier, softer way for them. No matter the fact that it's the harder path for me to take since now I have to deal judgement from society AND the rainbow.

Brute, damn it is nice to read your post and let you speak for me. My head
is still pounding...whiney dude today. I think it is so important to put myself in another persons' shoes...emotionally...to really try and understand what could be going on inside their heads. And listen...if they will talk about it. I can understand the "traitor" feeling ...why the people in the rainbow would feel this way. I am actually struggling right now cause i find myself going back and forth now that i have come into this site...and not just because of the site...i have always struggled with this..."damn the straight society and i shall not be silent" and then the idea of
ugh...just let me live ok. That is really my issue. I have struggled with what i feel is a need to be OUT as a transman in order to LIVE as a transman.

As far as your invisible femme...i was in more than one relationship where
the poor femmes always kinda get the shaft. The best thing i could do for her was to tell her..."look, i respect and like so and so. So, i don't mind that
you come out to her if you need someone to talk to about US with a friend.
I think that is so important. And it really puts them at ease. I only asked of her...to let me OK who i would allow to know about me and US.

And i really need to learn how to clean up the format of my posts...

[weatherboi]

I have experienced certain friends viewing me as a traitor. People are gonna either work it out in themselves or not I guess. Mostly my supportive people are here and then I have a few constants that love me no matterwhat. I am lucky when I look at it that way. Gay clubs can be so rough sometimes and can feel very unwelcoming to people that don't don a bar stool night after night. I am sorry ya'll had to deal with that.

Originally Posted by BrutalDyke

I'm glad you've got friends who are supportive. Wish I could say same for her and I. Unfortunately we've gotten shitted on quite a bit over the years but it's their issue, not ours.

I still remember our first date. Took her to a local gay club/bar and soon as we walked in the door, you could've heard a pin drop. Also if looks could wither, we'd crumpled to the floor. Lol.

Funny thing is, I've met some butches who were just fine with us until they found out that I was FTM. Then came the stares, the sneers, the eyerolling. Don't even think it's a competition thing at all with them because I'm very content with who I am and also very content with who they are and how they identify. It's literally an issue of being "traitors" because I want to be a man (even though it's not a "want" but something that just is) which is the easier, softer way for them. No matter the fact that it's the harder path for me to take since now I have to deal judgement from society AND the rainbow.

[Darbonaire]

I know how this shit feels from the lesbian community...not ALL of the community but a large part of it...in my experience anyway.

I don't give a rat's ass how someone identifies....that's their deal....but, because I aligned my body with my heart & soul, does NOT mean I am a traitor to the lesbian community...I never WAS a lesbian...THEY perceived me that way so that's on them. Yep, we've all heard the...."Well, if you want to be a guy....." shit. The butches that don't get it the feminists that don't get it. I think it's GREAT that they are comfortabe being masculine in their female bodies....excellent...for them. It was NOT for me & never has been.

The LBGT community is discriminated against by society & why the fu*k there's such "in-fighting" amongst these groups I've never understood. People are afraid of what they don't understand. I have often wondered if some of the shit I've heard from masculine butches isn't envy in a way. <Figuring I may get a LOT of shit over that statement...lol> It's just something I've wondered is all.....not something I believe to be true....at least not all the time.

Anyway, somewhere out there is another mate for me who will encompass ALL the wonderful qualities of my ex-wife, & be even more of a match for me. When I'm ready.......

[DMW]

Brute, i didn't even see that you were included in that also. Completely missed the word "I" in the her and I....geezle. Maybe time to go to the eye dr. Could be why i am getting these HA. I think you said that you are in a new area.That makes it thing difficult for awhile too. Transitioning and moving to a new area can be really trying. The two of you have each other and that is awesome. And i now realize that your femme was the femme that understood so well from the other thread...Good for you two! I am lovin' that realization. And it makes me smile.
I gotta go to work now...

Originally Posted by BrutalDyke

I'm glad you've got friends who are supportive. Wish I could say same for her and I.

[Darbonaire]

When you're ready, you'll know.


Brute.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think I will...thanks !

You two have a great day !

Jonathan