Third or Other Gender Butch

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Like Greyson, I came from the school of thought (and literature), that butch was a gender separate from woman and man. One was neither woman nor man, but just simply butch. The noun. If you said that you were a butch woman, then you were using butch as an adjective and not as a noun (a gender).

When I came to B/F.com (late 1990's), I noticed that the above was not the case. Subsequently, I did not identify as "simply butch" on said site, as I am not a woman.

I use butch as a noun for myself not as an adjective, and I am a woman also.

[AtLast]

I may be double-gendered..... female & butch.... which is how I view myself in terms of being female-other. This feels like a sub-identification of butch to me.

When is all said & done, my guess is that there are many genders!

multiplistc boink...

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I use butch as a noun for myself not as an adjective, and I am a woman also.

BullDog, do you use woman as a noun also and not a descriptor, adjective? I am asking this question in the spirit of seeking understanding. It's not meant to be a slander of some sort.

I use the words "Transmasculine Butch" to attempt to identify my gender with some clarity. Transpmasculine is an adjective, Butch is a noun. Transmasculine offers some insight to my belief that I fit somewhere on the spectrum of Transgender and have taken steps to move toward the legal recognition of my "otherness." Unfortunately, in our current legal system, in most countries there is only the option of being recognized legally as a man or woman.

There is one exception that I am aware of and that is because Linus posted a link with a story about a person born as a cisgender man, transitioned to become female, then decided that she/he was non-gendered. England did grant this person legal status as non-gendered.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Greyson

BullDog, do you use woman as a noun also and not a descriptor, adjective? I am asking this question in the spirit of seeking understanding. It's not meant to be a slander of some sort.

I use the words "Transmasculine Butch" to attempt to identify my gender with some clarity. Transpmasculine is an adjective, Butch is a noun. Transmasculine offers some insight to my belief that I fit somewhere on the spectrum of Transgender and have taken steps to move toward the legal recognition of my "otherness." Unfortunately, in our current legal system, in most countries there is only the option of being recognized legally as a man or woman.

There is one exception that I am aware of and that is because Linus posted a link with a story about a person born as a cisgender man, transitioned to become female, then decided that she/he was non-gendered. England did grant this person legal status as non-gendered.

Yes, both Butch and Woman are nouns. Thank you for the clarification on transmasculine.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Greyson

I use the words "Transmasculine Butch" to attempt to identify my gender with some clarity. Transpmasculine is an adjective, Butch is a noun. Transmasculine offers some insight to my belief that I fit somewhere on the spectrum of Transgender and have taken steps to move toward the legal recognition of my "otherness." Unfortunately, in our current legal system, in most countries there is only the option of being recognized legally as a man or woman.

And this needs to change! So many are simply being cast back into the binary because of this. It negates who they are as a kind of double-whammy, or a Catch-22!

There is one exception that I am aware of and that is because Linus posted a link with a story about a person born as a cisgender man, transitioned to become female, then decided that she/he was non-gendered. England did grant this person legal status as non-gendered.

This is so very interesting! Thanks, Linus! Needs to be many, many, more exceptions!

[BullDog]

I have never understood why our genders or biological sex (whatever they may be) need to have a legal status to begin with.

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I have never understood why our genders or biological sex (whatever they may be) need to have a legal status to begin with.

That is a very excellent point. I have wondered myself but this is the current reality I/we live in and I try to thrive in. I think this need to codify ones gender and/or biological sex is most likely grounded, and mired in patriarchy.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Greyson

That is a very excellent point. I have wondered myself but this is the current reality I/we live in and I try to thrive in. I think this need to codify ones gender and/or biological sex is most likely grounded, and mired in patriarchy.

Absolutely rooted in patriarchy! And male-dominated jurisprudence. Not all that long ago, historically (speaking about modern western cultures, as this is still true in some other cultures), women could not own property, including children they bore! They could not divorce ... or vote (not until 1920 in the US)!

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Absolutely rooted in patriarchy! And male-dominated jurisprudence. Not all that long ago, historically (speaking about modern western cultures, as this is still true in some other cultures), women could not own property, including children they bore! They could not divorce ... or vote (not until 1920 in the US)!

Or even buy a couch or a car, have a bank account, etc without a husband's signature even in the early 60's.

and people have no use for feminism. *teeth suck*