only another butch would understand

[atomiczombie]

I am a male-identified transguy, not yet transitioned. And I am guilty of reverting to male pronouns and saying "bro" to butches without checking out their pronoun preference first. I do try to be mindful but I slip up sometimes and I am sorry. I never intend disrespect, but I understand that is what is sometimes the outcome. Please call me on it folks, cause it greatly pains me to be referred to with female pronouns, so I know how icky that feels. to all the female ID'd butches.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

I am a male-identified transguy, not yet transitioned.

Ditto here.

And as such, pronouns are an issue for me because I havent started my transition. Female pronouns make me cringe...it's just how I am. but I know i have to live with it. What's worse is how many people in the queer community don't get it and don't repect my ID. You would think that others in this community would view me with openness and understanding.

Not true.

The ones who have been most receptive and understanding have been bisexual women who wanted to go out with me and straight women I've met. (I won't date, of course, because I don't want to date anyone.) But I was amazed at how "natural" references and understanding came to bisexual and straight women I've met. It's a far cry from the gay men who didn't want me at their social gathering because their families would be there and the lesbian woman who told me I made her uncomfortable.

Yanno, i'm just tired of all of it. I can only do what pleases me. And maybe day I can be loved for what/who i am.

Anyway, just a comment about my experiences since i haven't dropped in the last several pages. Thanks for reading.

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

Ditto here.

And as such, pronouns are an issue for me because I havent started my transition. Female pronouns make me cringe...it's just how I am. but I know i have to live with it. What's worse is how many people in the queer community don't get it and don't repect my ID. You would think that others in this community would view me with openness and understanding.

Not true.

I know exactly how you feel as a butch when your gender is not respected. Male pronouns make me cringe. But I don't intend to live with it, and I don't think you should live with wrong pronouns either. We just need to keep correcting people. I also concur that one would hope that the queer community would be most conscious of diversity- we don't expect to be invalidated in our own community. We just need to keep educating people. Most of them probably mean well...
As for a girlfriend or partner that tries to inflict hurt through intentional disrespect- that's just nasty and I'm sorry that happened to you.

[Diva]

Because I know that sometimes, some wear their feelings on their sleeves about so many things, if there is any confusion on my part about which pronoun one prefers, I ask in a matter~of~fact way. I just want to know so that I will avoid any hurt feelings.

It doesn't make me cringe to make another person more comfortable with their identity.

[kassykit]

I try to not use pronouns, i use names, reason being is unless i really really know you i have a horrid memory!

and at least with chats and forums...........every time you post your name is RIGHT there for me!!!

am sorry if i slipped up at any time and offended!

Just don't blow up at me say

"hey kass" and correct me nicely

-sends warm fuzzy hugs for those that want them and stuffs-

[MainelyButch]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

I know exactly how you feel as a butch when your gender is not respected. Male pronouns make me cringe. But I don't intend to live with it, and I don't think you should live with wrong pronouns either. We just need to keep correcting people. I also concur that one would hope that the queer community would be most conscious of diversity- we don't expect to be invalidated in our own community. We just need to keep educating people. Most of them probably mean well...
As for a girlfriend or partner that tries to inflict hurt through intentional disrespect- that's just nasty and I'm sorry that happened to you.

I'm with you on the "male pronouns make me cringe" as I want to be recognized as a woman still, even though I am very butch. I have learned so much from these forums (and other BF site forums) about the male id'd butch, and I respect that/them very much, yet I still want to personally be recognized as a strong butch woman, myself. It's been eye opening for me, living in small town Maine for sure. And the oft-times "invalidation within our own community", just pisses me off to no end. Why is it that us identifying ourselves as "butch" or "femme" is so threatening to some in our own community? I just can't understand this, you would think that there would be more support and acceptance within such a diverse community to start with, especially with the historical significance of the butch-femme dynamic.

Enjoying these forums, and looking forward to more topics and ideas. Hope everyone is enjoying the holiday season....to whatever degree you celebrate.

[Converse]

On several sites over the last few days I have been reading threads that go beyond encouraging discussion/debate and instead the OP appears to be leading the dialogue in what feels to me like a propaganda exercise- perhaps my perception is slightly biased because the topics concern judgment & criticism/disapproval/dislike of so many things that are important to me including: Old School; the use of Hy/Hym pronouns and everything to do with male identified Butches; High Femmes; and the D/g and D/s dynamics. Other than the contributors, the other commonality that these threads share is the constant use of the words “Misogyny” and “Feminism”.

Probably I would not be so concerned if these had been the usual lesbian sites, as ridicule and condemnation is something, being a Butch, that I have experienced from “our sisters” in varying degrees since the 1970’s. I have had those that I fought alongside with; turn on me, when political dialogue drew many to conclude that my “presentation” represented everything that they were against. So in reading these threads I was not at first overly concerned, and simply put it down to it being part of the cyclical phase, history repeating itself etc, until it struck me – this time I’m reading/listening to the same “ridicule and condemnation” on sites with Butch-Femme in their title.

I never believed that in a community supposedly forged by those who identified with Butch-Femme and all of its nuances, that I would have to explain that being Butch wasn’t a desperate attempt to become male, or that anything in being who I was or my way of conducting myself had anything to do with emulating male behavior, nor would I imagine that a High Femme would have to feel the need to justify her want to dress/act in a certain way because it ran contrary to some others perception of what claiming womanhood should look like, or a person identifying as a babygirl or a submissive needing to explain that this is a choice only able to be embraced because of their strength and has absolutely nothing to do with any weakness. I have even read posts that have questioned the intelligence of people when their lifestyle/persona/desires do not fit the OP’s “should list”.

I have written elsewhere that it would be naïve to believe that we could “be”- without ever being judged by some, but what is happening when the very essence of who we are is being judged by those, who by their membership of this community, at the very least claim to support if not understand? Has the membership of these sites changed so much that to assume support is no longer valid?

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

I know exactly how you feel as a butch when your gender is not respected. Male pronouns make me cringe. But I don't intend to live with it, and I don't think you should live with wrong pronouns either. We just need to keep correcting people. I also concur that one would hope that the queer community would be most conscious of diversity- we don't expect to be invalidated in our own community. We just need to keep educating people. Most of them probably mean well...
As for a girlfriend or partner that tries to inflict hurt through intentional disrespect- that's just nasty and I'm sorry that happened to you.

I live in the deep south where pronouns are a part of respect, Every sentence begins with ..."Miss..." I can't change things—not even one person at a time; this is about tradition—hundreds of years, tradition. I think what pains me the most, is that I have danced around this issue for the better part of my life. I wanted to leave the midwest (which is nothing short of a tight perm) and come to an international city, thinking it would embrace diversity; it doesn't, it's just as provincial as LA; people were not "gender-ID" sensitive or versed there either.

Some things...

If I were to date again (which isn't plausible for me) I would do certain things, like make reservations and tell the restaurant that I want my wait staff to be gender-ID sensitive, and that protocol with me is to use masculine pronouns. Just an example of changing things in certain settings or situations.

But...

what really blows my mind is how discriminating folks are in our own community. My personal take is that I don't question people on who they are. It's not for me to understand, it's for me to respect another person, period.

I was "dis-invited" to 4th of July this year outing by a gay man who couldn't deal with the pronoun thing and didn't want me around because his sister and mother were going to be there. He was afraid I would embarrass them. I wasn't even given a chance to say that I would have been gracious towards them.

I'm done y'all. I live for myself—I don't get in anyone's way. I say very little.

Y'all have a wonderful holiday.

[BullDog]

I am out of state at the moment and very shaggy. I miss my barber Vinnie. My customary flat top may be out. I might have to go for the quick buzz as I step out into the unknown, lol.

[Jet]

I'm letting mine grow out shoulder length...if I can take the stages. I don't do short hair

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

I'm letting mine grow out shoulder length...if I can take the stages. I don't do short hair

Well Jet, you are such a stylin gent. I think you hair will look good at any length.

[Stoney]

I have been reading this thread and I wanted to mention a previous thread right in the beginning. Ol'Jet you said something about being de- masculinized.. ( forgive me if I am saying it wrong) I noticed quite a few people who felt that that was more or less a male ID'd problem. I wanted to mention , that many years ago I was in a relationship with this woman , ( who first represented herself as a femme but really wasnt ,anyways that's another story ) This woman was something else, the butch- femme dynamic in the relationship pretty much flew outthe window the day I moved in with her. that day, I left my home and friends, traveled over 600 miles,had no sleep for days, unloaded a 18 foot truck full of my stuff and my kids into a garage! plus the whole 9 hour drive in a uhaul ( on my birthday) well I just sat down after all that , and I cried.She walked in the bedroom and looked at me and said ' HOPE YOU KNOW k how much you are turnin me off right now, I dont think Ill ever feel the same about you. Some fuckin butch! If I wanted a femme I would have stayed with my ex.( even though I am female Identified I have felt that pain , maybe not the same way but It was a huge blow for some reason, and i was effected by those words deeply. I was always having to prove my " butchiness" with her .

the relationship was very short lived after that day

It messed with my head a long time after that relationship ended. and for a long time every time I cried, her words would resurface.

now I am who I am, I cry, I laugh , I Burp( alot and very well I might add)

now it seems crazy that I let those words hurt me so much and question my very being.. but I definitely had a different mind set back then.

hope this relates,

always enjoy your posts Ol' Jet!

Stoney

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Stoney

I have been reading this thread and I wanted to mention a previous thread right in the beginning. Ol'Jet you said something about being de- masculinized.. ( forgive me if I am saying it wrong) I noticed quite a few people who felt that that was more or less a male ID'd problem. I wanted to mention , that many years ago I was in a relationship with this woman , ( who first represented herself as a femme but really wasnt ,anyways that's another story ) This woman was something else, the butch- femme dynamic in the relationship pretty much flew outthe window the day I moved in with her. that day, I left my home and friends, traveled over 600 miles,had no sleep for days, unloaded a 18 foot truck full of my stuff and my kids into a garage! plus the whole 9 hour drive in a uhaul ( on my birthday) well I just sat down after all that , and I cried.She walked in the bedroom and looked at me and said ' HOPE YOU KNOW k how much you are turnin me off right now, I dont think Ill ever feel the same about you. Some fuckin butch! If I wanted a femme I would have stayed with my ex.( even though I am female Identified I have felt that pain , maybe not the same way but It was a huge blow for some reason, and i was effected by those words deeply. I was always having to prove my " butchiness" with her .

the relationship was very short lived after that day

It messed with my head a long time after that relationship ended. and for a long time every time I cried, her words would resurface.

now I am who I am, I cry, I laugh , I Burp( alot and very well I might add)

now it seems crazy that I let those words hurt me so much and question my very being.. but I definitely had a different mind set back then.

hope this relates,

always enjoy your posts Ol' Jet!

Stoney

I am so sorry you experienced this, Stoney. I don't know what causes some people to flip the switch like this. I will never get it after building up a trust, and thinking there is a very clear understanding about sexual-orientation and IDs. For me, the blow was that someone I loved, and who I never thought would stoop so low, did very much the same thing as we were breaking up. In that moment, it was as though I didn't even know her. Even though I went through this, it hasn't changed who i am. What has changed now is my complete lack of trust in getting involved. I will never—and i mean never—put trust in anyone again. The prospect of going it alone at 53, is not fun. But it is what it is.

[Corkey]

This Male ID'd Butch finds the whole premise divisive.
That is all.

[Stoney]

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

I am so sorry you experienced this, Stoney. I don't know what causes some people to flip the switch like this. I will never get it after building up a trust, and thinking there is a very clear understanding about sexual-orientation and IDs. For me, the blow was that someone I loved, and who I never thought would stoop so low, did very much the same thing as we were breaking up. In that moment, it was as though I didn't even know her. Even though I went through this, it hasn't changed who i am. What has changed now is my complete lack of trust in getting involved. I will never—and i mean never—put trust in anyone again. The prospect of going it alone at 53, is not fun. But it is what it is.

Thanks for your comment and kind words on my post. I had a feeling you would get where I was coming from.
I am not sorry though that that happened, dont get me wrong, It f*cked with me for a while, but there were other factors in that relationship that really made me step back and say WTF am I doing here ?? why do I keep playing these games with people , I mean I knew she was playing it and I still didnt stop its like two people in a room looking at a huge purple girrafe but no one ever says anything they just keep acting , acting like they think everything is normal, just part of the script or something....


well The biggest reason I am glad that all that happened because it made me look at who I was compared to who I thought I was expected to be, The entire relationship basically was one lie after another, her lying to me and me lying to myself. Before finding a butch femme site I really didnt know there were " specific" types of butches, actually I didnt even know much about the whole B-F dynamic, cause most of the Gay folks I know arent really definable, I called em granola dykes, sporty dykes, kiki's tweeners, and they didnt have a clue, I mean I have alot of gay friends but virtually no self defined " butch - Femme" couples. jus' me... and that makes me weird, (just a little) around other couples. My friends when the rare ocassion arises they skirt around actually using the word. But when they do, it is always with an apology , like it is an insultlike " damn look at that , geez she is realllllllly butch and then look at me and say "no offense"?????????!!!......and its never like damn she's hot its more like ewwwwww, ya know what I mean?

Right before I got in that relationship I realized I wasnt
as weird as I thought , that other butches were like me , those who didnt want the same things reciprocated during love making. I remember reading about other butches who didnt want to take off all their clothes, who didnt want sex in the same way they gave it. I realized I was " stone".

That day changed my life, and so did the day she said those things to me, it took a little time and finally I realized that I was Trying to squeeze my self into a generic Butch definition and act in a way that I felt would reflect who I was.

I understand trust issues Ol' jet, yes I definately do,
but I honestly can say now I am no longer afraid to get involved, or "fall" in love anymore. I will not allow myself to be powerless over my heart, I have learned that I can make the decision within myself to love , or trust, or not.

I dont trust others to care for my heart, I dont trust them to make my life more meaningful, I dont trust the promises of Ill love you forever no matter what "(( NO MATTER WHAT???? )))) ( come on) I dont trust them to tell me what kind of person I need to be to keep ( or nurture) their feelings for me... actually I barely think about people Im with breaking my heart or cheating etc......or leaving me. I dont like liars, but......

Im glad that situation and others involving my heart and feelings have taken place because now..... I truly am free to be who I am , decide who I love , experience my bliss.

Not because I can trust others; because now... after all these years, I finally trust myself.

Create the life you want Ol' jet, we all play the game , act the part or whatever , but once we all realize we have the ability to pick and choose the characters or players, it is pretty darn hard game to lose. If you dont want to be alone, dont be, I mean, take that step, not with a huge futuristic plan in mind, not to look for a forever person, look for someone to share the day with maybe even decide to love em for a day..., then maybe the next and then maybe the next. one day at a time, you can love some one for a minute...not all love has to last forever .. (who the hell would want it to really?) someone who relies on another for their happiness......thats who.

Dont trust your heart with anyone but yourself.They have to worry 'bout their own, yours will always come in second. But love them the way you want to, for as short or as long as you want to.I never just " fall in love anymore..." I "step" into it stand with both eyes wide open, enjoy as much as I can for as long as I can . when its not fun anymore.....I can walk away.It is a good feeling to know you are the one in charge of your own happiness.

Much peace to you, Stoney

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by Stoney

Thanks for your comment and kind words on my post. I had a feeling you would get where I was coming from.
I am not sorry though that that happened, dont get me wrong, It f*cked with me for a while, but there were other factors in that relationship that really made me step back and say WTF am I doing here ?? why do I keep playing these games with people , I mean I knew she was playing it and I still didnt stop its like two people in a room looking at a huge purple girrafe but no one ever says anything they just keep acting , acting like they think everything is normal, just part of the script or something....


well The biggest reason I am glad that all that happened because it made me look at who I was compared to who I thought I was expected to be, The entire relationship basically was one lie after another, her lying to me and me lying to myself. Before finding a butch femme site I really didnt know there were " specific" types of butches, actually I didnt even know much about the whole B-F dynamic, cause most of the Gay folks I know arent really definable, I called em granola dykes, sporty dykes, kiki's tweeners, and they didnt have a clue, I mean I have alot of gay friends but virtually no self defined " butch - Femme" couples. jus' me... and that makes me weird, (just a little) around other couples. My friends when the rare ocassion arises they skirt around actually using the word. But when they do, it is always with an apology , like it is an insultlike " damn look at that , geez she is realllllllly butch and then look at me and say "no offense"?????????!!!......and its never like damn she's hot its more like ewwwwww, ya know what I mean?

Right before I got in that relationship I realized I wasnt
as weird as I thought , that other butches were like me , those who didnt want the same things reciprocated during love making. I remember reading about other butches who didnt want to take off all their clothes, who didnt want sex in the same way they gave it. I realized I was " stone".

That day changed my life, and so did the day she said those things to me, it took a little time and finally I realized that I was Trying to squeeze my self into a generic Butch definition and act in a way that I felt would reflect who I was.

I understand trust issues Ol' jet, yes I definately do,
but I honestly can say now I am no longer afraid to get involved, or "fall" in love anymore. I will not allow myself to be powerless over my heart, I have learned that I can make the decision within myself to love , or trust, or not.

I dont trust others to care for my heart, I dont trust them to make my life more meaningful, I dont trust the promises of Ill love you forever no matter what "(( NO MATTER WHAT???? )))) ( come on) I dont trust them to tell me what kind of person I need to be to keep ( or nurture) their feelings for me... actually I barely think about people Im with breaking my heart or cheating etc......or leaving me. I dont like liars, but......

Im glad that situation and others involving my heart and feelings have taken place because now..... I truly am free to be who I am , decide who I love , experience my bliss.

Not because I can trust others; because now... after all these years, I finally trust myself.

Create the life you want Ol' jet, we all play the game , act the part or whatever , but once we all realize we have the ability to pick and choose the characters or players, it is pretty darn hard game to lose. If you dont want to be alone, dont be, I mean, take that step, not with a huge futuristic plan in mind, not to look for a forever person, look for someone to share the day with maybe even decide to love em for a day..., then maybe the next and then maybe the next. one day at a time, you can love some one for a minute...not all love has to last forever .. (who the hell would want it to really?) someone who relies on another for their happiness......thats who.

Dont trust your heart with anyone but yourself.They have to worry 'bout their own, yours will always come in second. But love them the way you want to, for as short or as long as you want to.I never just " fall in love anymore..." I "step" into it stand with both eyes wide open, enjoy as much as I can for as long as I can . when its not fun anymore.....I can walk away.It is a good feeling to know you are the one in charge of your own happiness.

Much peace to you, Stoney

WOW. What a great fucking post.

[I'mOneToo]

sorry, don't know how to multi quote but wanted to get both of these in. this is really long but i'll try to edit some thoughts.

Jet and Stoney, I'm really hearing the discussion that you're having between the tissues, laundry, and poodles.

People say and do crazy shit during breakups. We've all done it, we've all had it done to us.

If someone's switch flips off whether it's a direct attack on your ID or indirectly by choosing someone else the complete opposite of the way you ID, it's always going to hurt to lose that person. Because once she flips, she's as gone as a girl can get, as the song says. There's nothing you can do to change her course in life. The heart wants what the heart wants, and it doesn't want yours any more, and that's painful.

At that point, you *don't* know her any more. You can try to figure out where you went wrong, but there are too many factors out of your control to really know. The unpredictability of another's soul is an unknown. I think it's just pure stupid luck if people are compatible and can stay together forever. It takes a lot of work and if both can't meet each other halfway, it's never going to work. People think it should be easy, that love shouldn't be work or it's not really love. I believe the opposite. No one flips a switch in an instant, it happens over time. All the little things that weren't dealt with at the time it happened, move it infinitesimably downward and then *boom* out go the lights. Did it get suddenly dark? No, usually both parties ignored the obvious signs that the sun was setting on their relationship.

You're going to mourn the loss. And grieve over it, and gnash your teeth and shake your fist at god, the fates, or whatever. And one day you'll wake up and see that it's really her loss. She lost you, and you lost her but YOU haven't lost *yourself*. It's not you who changed so fundamentally. That is the day you can wake up and begin to move forward in life. You take stock of yourself and in doing so, you may realize she actually did you a favor because now you have an opportunity to choose a new life. And instead of having blind faith and trust in someone new, you've got these experiences that have tempered you and made you stronger. You can live now with your eyes wide open and ask the right questions and if you get the wrong answers you can trust YOURSELF to know that if it isn't right, then don't pursue it.

One of the greatest gifts is having enough life experience to know that you don't have to try to fit a square peg into a round hole any more. Nothing has to be forced any more. You're gonna be 53 whether its alone and angry or with a little bit of trust in yourself that you can use your wisdom to contain something besides mistrust and anger for the rest of your days.

Time is a friend, and an enemy. It's a friend when you've got lots of it on your hands and you can use it to allow your heart to heal. To pave the way to loving yourself enough to be able to love someone else eventually. It's an enemy when you make demands on your heart. Telling it that it's not getting you where you want it to go fast enough. That is how we end up rushing into things that are just wrong for us.

And so often, we confuse infatuation with true love. One or the other of us, or both. That's a malady of immaturity; that 13-year old crush we get. But we're not kids any more. That feeling may be what starts us up but can it get us through the long haul? That's where the work comes in. But before we're ready for crushes or anything serious, we have to grieve and heal.

I've been doing that for several months and now I'm taking some steps --well i took a giant step forward and then had to take a little step back and say, "you know, i'm not ready for a commitment." and that's okay. it is with her too. I've learned when I need to establish a boundary for myself and if the other person is not willing to respect that, then it's good to learn that right from the start. I have to value their boundaries in kind. I will never again compromise on my values, and boundaries are one of my most valued gifts that i give to myself and to others. If they don't want it, then they don't want me.

Guess in a long-winded way, I'm saying learn what your values are, and the ones you gained from your experience (no matter how shitty it was) may end up being some of the highest values you'll possess. That is a gift. She's never going to hand you a medal. You get that from inside yourself. It's your purple heart, earned the hard way -- that gift is yours. And it is enfolded in the petals of a long-stemmed red rose. That is what you will give to another, someday. That is, if you choose. Some may choose a solitary existence for the rest of their lives but going down a bitter and angry road will not bring any peace. Be at peace, at least, with yourself.

/end sermon

************************************************** ********
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Jet
I am so sorry you experienced this, Stoney. I don't know what causes some people to flip the switch like this. I will never get it after building up a trust, and thinking there is a very clear understanding about sexual-orientation and IDs. For me, the blow was that someone I loved, and who I never thought would stoop so low, did very much the same thing as we were breaking up. In that moment, it was as though I didn't even know her. Even though I went through this, it hasn't changed who i am. What has changed now is my complete lack of trust in getting involved. I will never—and i mean never—put trust in anyone again. The prospect of going it alone at 53, is not fun. But it is what it is.
************************************************** ********

Originally Posted by Stoney

Thanks for your comment and kind words on my post. I had a feeling you would get where I was coming from.
I am not sorry though that that happened, dont get me wrong, It f*cked with me for a while, but there were other factors in that relationship that really made me step back and say WTF am I doing here ?? why do I keep playing these games with people , I mean I knew she was playing it and I still didnt stop its like two people in a room looking at a huge purple girrafe but no one ever says anything they just keep acting , acting like they think everything is normal, just part of the script or something....


well The biggest reason I am glad that all that happened because it made me look at who I was compared to who I thought I was expected to be, The entire relationship basically was one lie after another, her lying to me and me lying to myself. Before finding a butch femme site I really didnt know there were " specific" types of butches, actually I didnt even know much about the whole B-F dynamic, cause most of the Gay folks I know arent really definable, I called em granola dykes, sporty dykes, kiki's tweeners, and they didnt have a clue, I mean I have alot of gay friends but virtually no self defined " butch - Femme" couples. jus' me... and that makes me weird, (just a little) around other couples. My friends when the rare ocassion arises they skirt around actually using the word. But when they do, it is always with an apology , like it is an insultlike " damn look at that , geez she is realllllllly butch and then look at me and say "no offense"?????????!!!......and its never like damn she's hot its more like ewwwwww, ya know what I mean?

Right before I got in that relationship I realized I wasnt
as weird as I thought , that other butches were like me , those who didnt want the same things reciprocated during love making. I remember reading about other butches who didnt want to take off all their clothes, who didnt want sex in the same way they gave it. I realized I was " stone".

That day changed my life, and so did the day she said those things to me, it took a little time and finally I realized that I was Trying to squeeze my self into a generic Butch definition and act in a way that I felt would reflect who I was.

I understand trust issues Ol' jet, yes I definately do,
but I honestly can say now I am no longer afraid to get involved, or "fall" in love anymore. I will not allow myself to be powerless over my heart, I have learned that I can make the decision within myself to love , or trust, or not.

I dont trust others to care for my heart, I dont trust them to make my life more meaningful, I dont trust the promises of Ill love you forever no matter what "(( NO MATTER WHAT???? )))) ( come on) I dont trust them to tell me what kind of person I need to be to keep ( or nurture) their feelings for me... actually I barely think about people Im with breaking my heart or cheating etc......or leaving me. I dont like liars, but......

Im glad that situation and others involving my heart and feelings have taken place because now..... I truly am free to be who I am , decide who I love , experience my bliss.

Not because I can trust others; because now... after all these years, I finally trust myself.

Create the life you want Ol' jet, we all play the game , act the part or whatever , but once we all realize we have the ability to pick and choose the characters or players, it is pretty darn hard game to lose. If you dont want to be alone, dont be, I mean, take that step, not with a huge futuristic plan in mind, not to look for a forever person, look for someone to share the day with maybe even decide to love em for a day..., then maybe the next and then maybe the next. one day at a time, you can love some one for a minute...not all love has to last forever .. (who the hell would want it to really?) someone who relies on another for their happiness......thats who.

Dont trust your heart with anyone but yourself.They have to worry 'bout their own, yours will always come in second. But love them the way you want to, for as short or as long as you want to.I never just " fall in love anymore..." I "step" into it stand with both eyes wide open, enjoy as much as I can for as long as I can . when its not fun anymore.....I can walk away.It is a good feeling to know you are the one in charge of your own happiness.

Much peace to you, Stoney

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by June

I was drawn in here by the plethora of Poodles. I wish Dylan and I liked each other so he would send me one of his fabulous creations.

Maybe I'll etsy them? Although, I do like the personal experience of craft fairs at the mall


That Way Everyone Can Partake Of The Fruits Of My Nimble Fingers <insert crocheting/knitting/needlepointing/cross-stitching emoticon here>
Dylan

[nytangel]

Originally Posted by Stoney

I have been reading this thread and I wanted to mention a previous thread right in the beginning. Ol'Jet you said something about being de- masculinized.. ( forgive me if I am saying it wrong) I noticed quite a few people who felt that that was more or less a male ID'd problem. I wanted to mention , that many years ago I was in a relationship with this woman , ( who first represented herself as a femme but really wasnt ,anyways that's another story ) This woman was something else, the butch- femme dynamic in the relationship pretty much flew outthe window the day I moved in with her. that day, I left my home and friends, traveled over 600 miles,had no sleep for days, unloaded a 18 foot truck full of my stuff and my kids into a garage! plus the whole 9 hour drive in a uhaul ( on my birthday) well I just sat down after all that , and I cried.She walked in the bedroom and looked at me and said ' HOPE YOU KNOW k how much you are turnin me off right now, I dont think Ill ever feel the same about you. Some fuckin butch! If I wanted a femme I would have stayed with my ex.( even though I am female Identified I have felt that pain , maybe not the same way but It was a huge blow for some reason, and i was effected by those words deeply. I was always having to prove my " butchiness" with her .

the relationship was very short lived after that day

It messed with my head a long time after that relationship ended. and for a long time every time I cried, her words would resurface.

now I am who I am, I cry, I laugh , I Burp( alot and very well I might add)

now it seems crazy that I let those words hurt me so much and question my very being.. but I definitely had a different mind set back then.

hope this relates,

always enjoy your posts Ol' Jet!

Stoney

Stoney, thank you for posting this. I hate crying worse than anything. I am comfortable in my skin and with who I am, but crying still makes me sometimes feel less. I know that crying is a good release and its very emotionallly healthy to do this. But still that masculine part that dwells in my spirit gets so angry when the water works start. And heaven forbid if my girl can see them even in my eyes. It's not her that makes me feel less ... its me and my own perception / expection of and for me.

[Rockinonahigh]

Since my accident in 07 I havent had any kind of real job so I have made a fue bucks hear and there doing odd careting gigs,giveing rideing lessons ect.I got with this group that is run by the state gov and funded by the feds..sorta like an elder job placement group.I told them I had plenty of clothes to wear to work but they insisted that I go to dress for success..the problem is thay sent me to the womens part of it.I tryed my best to go to the mens dress for sucsess but no mater how I try to explane things to them it never worked,so I just went went along with it all cause I wouldnt be wearing them anyway..they r hanging in my colset and will be there a long time.Then they came up with this womens buisness club than meets once a month,then after the meeting u get more stuff.Where im intrested in the buisness concept of the meeting for the buisness world,I am feeling more and like im giveing up to much of who I am to gain this job.I need to work for many reasons so im just going to deal with it as best as I can ,but it still irks me big time.I hope I made scence with this.