only another butch would understand

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by BullDog

What I said yesterday was that having male identified people in a primarily female queer space introduces power dynamics, hierarchies, privileges, etc that would not be there- in the same way- if male identified people were not there, just as white people being in a group of people is different than if it was a community that was made up of all people of color. Does that mean I think that male identified people shouldn't be here? No, it does not. Does it mean I think male identified people are to blame entirely for the hierarchies, the erasure, the misogyny that has taken place. No, I do not. We have all played a role in it.

However, I believe that male identified people have a responsibility to recognize that their presence does make an impact and it absolutely has to do with how male is valued over female- in society and in queer communities. The fact that transmen have their own struggles does not lessen this fact. I believe transphobia stems from misogyny as well.

Masculinity is valued over femininity. That means YOU too need to check your shit. This is something you constantly put on male ID'd butches and transmen. Also, this happens to femmes ALL the time from BUTCHES...PERIOD.

And here's the other thing. I was invited to this site (as many many people were)...not in SPITE of who I am, but BECAUSE of who I am. This site is NOT (as has been reiterated by the Admin time and time again) female space or lesbian space. This was made VERY clear to me before I signed up. I'm sorry if that ruins your picture perfect, "butches are women" motto, but that's the way it is...Admin's said it NUMEROUS times.

WOMEN do not OWN butch femme...PERIOD. If you don't like male ID'd butches, or if you don't like FTMs, don't talk to them. Say whatever you like in your private 'females and female pronouns only' clubhouse, but your post is offensive and exclusionary on what was presented to me as a very QUEER INclusionary space. If this space is NOT supposed to be inclusionary of the entirety of the queer community, then I will freely leave and take my business elsewhere, because I've HAD it with this type of transphobia...especially coming from gender variant folks.

It's been presented to me that this is a QUEER website meant for ALL variations thereof.


Dylan

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Masculinity is valued over femininity. That means YOU too need to check your shit. This is something you constantly put on male ID'd butches and transmen. Also, this happens to femmes ALL the time from BUTCHES...PERIOD.

And here's the other thing. I was invited to this site (as many many people were)...not in SPITE of who I am, but BECAUSE of who I am. This site is NOT (as has been reiterated by the Admin time and time again) female space or lesbian space. This was made VERY clear to me before I signed up. I'm sorry if that ruins your picture perfect, "butches are women" motto, but that's the way it is...Admin's said it NUMEROUS times.

WOMEN do not OWN butch femme...PERIOD. If you don't like male ID'd butches, or if you don't like FTMs, don't talk to them. Say whatever you like in your private 'females and female pronouns only' clubhouse, but your post is offensive and exclusionary on what was presented to me as a very QUEER INclusionary space. If this space is NOT supposed to be inclusionary of the entirety of the queer community, then I will freely leave and take my business elsewhere, because I've HAD it with this type of transphobia...especially coming from gender variant folks.

It's been presented to me that this is a QUEER website meant for ALL variations thereof.


Dylan

Dylan stop with your hyperbole and exaggerations already. It was a tired act long ago. I have never said anything about all women or all female space.

I do check my SHIT all the time as a masculine identified person. I have also discussed this in my posts in this thread.

Just stop already.

[Just_G]

Well, here we go. I hate all this kind of interaction...it gets so negative and just feels gross to me. THIS kind of interaction is one of the several reasons I left the other site and all of that argumentive space.
THIS is why I don't participate in these kinds of threads. I am feeling all pissy and wanting to jump on people about things they say.

Peace out kids.....I am going to go let people know what I am wearing today or if I own something, or maybe even write a Dear * letter to make my friends laugh or smile.

This is ridiculous.

[BullDog]

G, I certainly agree. It's ludicrous.

[BullDog]

Peace. Out. I am following G out of this hate fest.

[Mtn]

Is it just me or has this EXACT thread in one way or another, always happened on every other site, with similar outcomes?....Mtn who learns from the past

[Mister Bent]

Is it just me, or is it every time there is a thread with meaningful content, people have to be dismissive of it and complain?

[Daywalker]

Originally Posted by Jackhammer

I was going to stay out of this thread since the conversation was moving a long but I do feel the need to add my few cents as a Butch person.

Id like to see the great divide brought together, Id like to see the healing begin. I know we can share space in this queer community as long as we honor and respect each other.

I have a lot of dear friends that are Male Identified and FTM and I do feel a deep sense of brotherhood with, while honoring my own Female Identity and that of many Female Identified friends.

We all have struggles to be seen, we all already know it, one persons visibility doesn't have to come at the expense of others.

Im not saying that in reference to anyone here, I'm just saying what Im feeling.

The first person ever Banned from this website is a known Troll that spews Transphobic hatred all over the internet.
We wont provide medium for hatred on any level.

I dont want anyone shaking a finger in my face telling me what I need to work on as a adult.
So lets talk to each other rather than at each other and not vilify any group of people.

Off to smoke my pipe on the front porch and watch the squirrels hide their nuts.

Sometimes yer just hawt.

Daywalker

Smokin mah pipe right along with ya.